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Old 11-15-2012, 04:38 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tjts1 View Post
God damn socialists
I recognize the failure of socialism as clearly as the next guy, but I would ask for a more thought provoking comment. The one above only incites others to attack capitalism in a similarly thoughtless way.

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Old 11-15-2012, 10:47 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Socialism is for the corporations and the banks, here, . . . and yes, they have already stolen other peoples money (whether by tax evasion, lobbying, monopolization or bailout. With no fear of prosecution). What the citizens may or may not get is paltry by comparison.

A simple enough plan for Paris. Things have to move along from some point in reasonability. The vehicles affected are already 15-16 years old.

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Old 11-15-2012, 12:17 PM   #13 (permalink)
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When you call the police/ fire department, how much do you have to pay for them to come? Oh wait.... That's socialized.. How have all of our houses not burned down yet with such a failure of a system? I guess it only works for emergencies, and teachers, and healthcare, and ....

It honestly sickens me that even a terribly poor country like Cuba still has better life expectancy and lower infant mortality rates than a country as rich as the US. Even the poorest people in Britain still live longer than the wealthiest americans, but I guess a socialized system doesn't work for healthcare either.. But it's not like living is all that important.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I kinda had a hunch that this post would evoke such debate. Kinda interesting to watch what I've started.
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Old 11-15-2012, 12:49 PM   #15 (permalink)
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"Even the poorest people in Britain still live longer than the wealthiest americans."

I would love for you to provide some sort of factual statistic to back up that opinion.

Lets see... How often do they buy fast food? Do they drink soda? Diet? America is fat and lazy and no amount of Dr. visits is going to save thier fat asses. Preventitive maintence is the key to a healthy life, not going to the Dr.

"Cardiovascular disease is the leading cause of death in the United States; one in every three deaths is from heart disease and stroke, equal to 2,200 deaths per day."
Source: CDC Features - Heart Month

I do not want to pay for other peoples choice to be unhealthy and hence have to constantly visit the Dr. The only way I will support Socialist healthcare is if they ban unhealthy food and make exercise mandatory.
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Old 11-15-2012, 01:37 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeahPete View Post
Lets see... How often do they buy fast food? Do they drink soda? Diet? America is fat and lazy and no amount of Dr. visits is going to save thier fat asses. Preventitive maintence is the key to a healthy life, not going to the Dr.

"Cardiovascular disease is the leading cause of death in the United States; one in every three deaths is from heart disease and stroke, equal to 2,200 deaths per day."
Source: CDC Features - Heart Month

I do not want to pay for other peoples choice to be unhealthy and hence have to constantly visit the Dr. The only way I will support Socialist healthcare is if they ban unhealthy food and make exercise mandatory.
The trouble in the US is even though many decisions appear to be a choice, there is a mental programming of those choices by large interests from children onward. Our country is very very lax in claims made by companies VRS public good, few countries for example allowed direct drug advertising.

AKA our system is training us to be fat fools, get rid of this ideotic Iphun couch crap and maybe we will have the possibility of seeing the correct role models or viewpoints are so squewed that we do things that make us slaves into a system.

Big Food -> Drugs -> Hospitals are owned by the same companies, I wonder if they have a conflict of interest?
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Old 11-15-2012, 08:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YeahPete View Post
Lets see... How often do they buy fast food? Do they Drink soda? Diet? America is fat and lazy and no amount of Dr. visits is going to save their fat asses. Preventative maintenance is the key to a healthy life, not going to the Dr.

I do not want to pay for other peoples choice to be unhealthy and hence have to constantly visit the Dr. The only way I will support Socialist healthcare is if they ban unhealthy food and make exercise mandatory.
That is whats going to happen here. People are going to live the fat life for 30 or 40 years and then when life catches up to them they are all going to go to the doctor and ruin the "free health care for all" system.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 2000neon View Post
Cuba still has better life expectancy.
There is a difference between a better life and longer life expectancy.

If socialized health care is go great then why to do rich canadians come to the US for advanced treatments?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rmay635703 View Post
few countries for example allowed direct Drug advertising.
Few countries put up the money or have companies that will put up the money to R&D safe new Drugs.
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Old 11-15-2012, 11:20 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
That is whats going to happen here. People are going to live the fat life for 30 or 40 years and then when life catches up to them they are all going to go to the doctor and ruin the "free health care for all" system.

There is a difference between a better life and longer life expectancy.
Many of the surveys done of peoples happiness have shown people were happier in the period between 1920-1940 than they are today (recent years), perhaps stuff and income level have less to do with happiness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
If socialized health care is go great then why to do rich canadians come to the US for advanced treatments?
It is not uncommon for rich americans to go to Germany or Japan either.

And canadians who do come to the us almost always have special insurance because most of them are TRULY AFRAID of being in the us medical system and its assicociated massive costs. (1/3 of GDP)


Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Few countries put up the money or have companies that will put up the money to R&D safe new Drugs.
LoL, few drugs are safe or very new, we spend millions on making slight modifications of existing drugs.

When ethicy reviews have been done 75% of the drugs on the market were found to be

1. Dangerous
2. Ineffective
3. Contaminated
4. Misprescribed

and that is not overseas either. The phrase, No place in any market, as the board said I believe fits most of what is forced down our throats, physiciatric drugs are the biggest scam.
3% effective is considered a resounding sucess.

The truth of the matter is, we really only have roughly 75 very effective drugs on the market with many iterations of the same, the rest are garbage.

We perhaps are wasting our time and resources on a lot of garbage with only a handfull of individuals making truly effective drugs, most of which were designed prior to 1985.

Ah well.
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Old 11-16-2012, 12:23 PM   #19 (permalink)
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What a very interesting discussion. Allow me, however, to return to Paris for a moment:

Socialism is not relevant to this discussion. The EU is trying to improve air quality in cities by reducing pollution from vehicles. This is done by enforcing increasingly strict standards for fuel efficiency and particle emissions, thus leading the industry to build more fuel efficient cars. (Btw this is also reducing our dependency on foreign oil, which is good.)

In large (and very polluted) cities such as Paris more needs to be done to improve the air quality. Right now the air pollution is a serious health hazard, as it is in most large cities. For this reason some cities ban certain vehicles from specific areas. This is normal in most large European cities.

The (democratically elected) officials of each city decide if and where this is necessary. If the citizens don't agree they can change it by protesting or by voting for someone else in the next election. Hopefully I don't need to tell you that all members of the EU are democracies...

Generally people accept these bans as neccessary for health reasons. Remember: Europe is a very densely populated area compared to the US. And we need to breathe just like Americans do.

Now, feel free to return to the political debate.
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Old 11-16-2012, 04:41 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel_Dave View Post
I kinda had a hunch that this post would evoke such debate. Kinda interesting to watch what I've started.
Don't worry, Dave. It's not your fault, you tried your best. The problem is that some things are out of your control.

Thankfully, those things aren't out of the mods' control. Something tells me that this thread is going to start over after post #7.
I understand that cars, fuel, and the world they exist in are not free from politics, but can't this forum be? PLZ??

BTW, this is a warning not only to whoever started the political OT, but also to all who didn't ignore it and took the bait

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