(Re)considering the wisdom of automobile ownership?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I live in the near city suburbs of Edinburgh...

Of course, you also live in a country which an active rider could probably bike across in a day. Took me three, some years ago (along the Loch Ness/Great Glen route), but I was taking it easy and playing tourist.

[Frank Lee]

I know about de gustibus and all that,

I don't.

The bulk of the gas I bought this spring, summer, and fall went into a thirsty camper truck. So I got out a little.

[Ryland]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

I don't know: from out here it seems that you non-car folks must live a life that consists of nothing but going to work and coming home to watch TV until you go to bed, with maybe the occasional visit to a local bar or restaurant.

I get out quite a bit, after all I'm 30 and single, but I moved to where I want to spend my free time so I can walk and bike to a great deal of the places that I want to go, saved enough money by not driving there that I can enjoy my self while I'm there and that is really key to driving less, being where you spend your time.

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Of course, you also live in a country which an active rider could probably bike across in a day. Took me three, some years ago (along the Loch Ness/Great Glen route), but I was taking it easy and playing tourist.

The key phrase here is "active biker", I'm more a weekend potterer with the kid.

We do have some neat tracks though which were made from old railway lines closed in the 1960s. Can't help thinking instead of wasting roadspace with Trams they could have just brought those back into use.

[320touring]

Originally Posted by Arragonis

I live in the near city suburbs of Edinburgh, mainly so that A-junior can go to a decent school, otherwise I would happily out of town.

For a brief period I worked in the centre of town so of course I did the commute thing on buses - its only about 5 miles to the town centre. During that time whilst minding my own business on buses I had to intervene in one mugging, worried daily about the usual drunks getting out of hand and had to endure leaking buses with either heating that was on full in summer or not working in winter.

Alarming thing is, Lothian Buses are the best publically operated buses in Scotland. They blow First, Stagecoach, Arriva et al out the water.

As for the Wisdom of Car ownership..

The recent trip to Europe I did underlined me the rationale behind car ownership in my eyes..


Cost less than 2 return flights to Geneva
No Queuing up for 4 hrs at the Airport (we timed the ferries so we drove almost straight on..)
The ability to SEE areas you're travelling through
The ability to amend and add to routes at a moments notice.

I have previously used public transport (Train) for commuting, did 3 years day in/out to Glasgow from Hamilton.

Filthy Trains
Late Trains
Packed Trains
Cancelled Trains

All yours for £30 a week - back then, petrol for similar journey would be £20 per week.


Now, before you all jump on me, My father worked for the Railways since the 1970's and freely admits there has been a constant reduction in standards from an already low level.


I don't object to public transport as a concept-just the execution of it in the UK leaves me in dispair!

Curitiba in Brazil, or pretty much anywhere in Europe does it much better.

Whats so hard about having a "Station" with

Trains coming into the upper level
Bus Station below
Bycicles out the front
Taxi's round the back and
Car Parking underneath?

Its called integrated public transport, and it rocks!

[NeilBlanchard]

Two points: I am a Quaker, and I understand the idea of Simplicity. I drive a car because I have to, and I try to walk when I can, and to ride a bike when I can.

Here's a vehicle that splits the difference between a car and a bicycle; that is more efficient than a bicycle, and with (most) of the weather protection of a car: a velomobile. Like Mr. Allert Jacobs builds.

Velomobiel.nl - Quest: intro

[Arragonis]

Originally Posted by 320touring

Alarming thing is, Lothian Buses are the best publically operated buses in Scotland. They blow First, Stagecoach, Arriva et al out the water....

Relatively speaking yes they do. Also the ancient buses on some routes are being replaced by much better ones now. I wonder how much faster they could have done this by not having to contribute to the trams.

Originally Posted by 320touring

...Its called integrated public transport, and it rocks!

The French RER system interfacing between Paris, the suburbs and the airports is pretty damn good.

No car - walk off plane, enter station, catch train to centre of Paris, enter Metro - done.

With Car - walk off place, walk to car, join huge motorway network.

EDIT Low cost too - RER from CDG to Paris and then 10 Metro tickets was under 30 Euro for two people in July.

[gone-ot]

...from an American "cowboy's" viewpoint:

1) horse = freedom
2) hay = food for horse
3) road apples = organic "smog"
4) veterinary = horse doctor
5) saddle = cowboy's easy-chair
6) grooming = horsey "wash-n-dry"

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by MorphDaCivic

I think electric bikes are the future, especially when the price of Li-Po batteries drops.

More important than the battery prices might be the range-anxiety issue. And also, how to meet the requirements for an increased cargo capacity? Some people would need at least a side-car to haul a suitcase on vacations, or a dog, or tools, or anything else...

Originally Posted by jamesqf

I don't know: from out here it seems that you non-car folks must live a life that consists of nothing but going to work and coming home to watch TV until you go to bed, with maybe the occasional visit to a local bar or restaurant.

I know about de gustibus and all that, but really, what sort of a life is that? Don't you ever want to get out and take the dogs for a long hike (and not on the same old trail every time, either), or go play at the lake, go skiing in the winter, or otherwise live a little?

Gotta have to agree with you at this point, sometimes I end up wasting so much time for not having a private vehicle. And sometimes when I have to take a short trip there is always some worry about finding a place for the dog to stay while I'm away from home, and it's not cheap. I have already taken the dog in some trips with my dad's car, but it's not the same thing as being able to set the routes I would want to go instead of just taking a "free" ride.

[sendler]

Ebikes and a trailer will be the salvation of some sort of personal transportation for the middle class as far out as you want to look. Horses of the future.
.
All of these progressive discussions must keep in mind what time frame we are talking about. 2017? 5 years from now which is how far down the road most people seem to think about. 20 years? Which is just the beginning of a timeframe of being able to change infrastructure? 100 years when we pass peak oil and liquid fuel prices skyrocket?
.
The internet and smart phones will change / replace taxis with ride sharing. You will call for a ride, when the vehicle arrives there will already be 2-3 people inside. On the way to where you are going, 1 gets out, then a little further, 1 more gets in. Then you get out. like a custom bus route and very cheap. Studies have recently shown that NYC could reduce the number of taxi licenses by 80% since none of them would ever be sitting around, fighting for a fare.
.
On a 20 year time scale the inevitable carbon taxes will begin the end to long commutes for the middle class in the USA. And a long, gradual shift away from single family houses. Rent a car for trips out of town for the growing numbers of metro dwellers. Electric drive cars will start to take a real share and show us that we needed to start hanging a lot more wires. Once most people live in metros, everything changes. Congestion and parking become a major concern. Narrow track, leaning, enclosed three wheelers. simple ebikes. Mass transit made more integrated and versatile
.
Don't even want to talk about 100 years.