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Old 12-11-2012, 06:53 PM   #31 (permalink)
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OK, today it was 23 degrees out for most of the day. Also, I was driving much harder than normal because I was running behind schedule for much of the day. I just rolled into my driveway with over 100 miles and I averaged 43.0 mpg. I have no clue how some people are seeing only 32 or 33mpg. They must be freaking lead footed!

The last short burst of warm weather (two days), I saw 51.0 mpg one day and 52.2 mpg the second day (over 100 miles each day).

Weather affects this car alot, along with the nut behind the wheel.

Matt

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Old 12-11-2012, 08:05 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Recumpence View Post
I have no clue how some people are seeing only 32 or 33mpg. They must be freaking lead footed!
Or Ford's reputation for hit or miss quality. Its only natural for Ford to have a high ratio of duds early in the production run. They see early adopters are beta testers. I'm sure the fleet wide FE will improve in the second and third model year.
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Old 12-12-2012, 09:22 PM   #33 (permalink)
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even more angry (yet politely so) Canadians?

I have to laugh: this ad from Ford of Canada keeps popping up in this thread for me:



Note that we're still using essentially the "pre-2008" EPA equivalent formula (no 2nd layer fudge factor applied).

So that 4.0L / 100 km = 59 MPG (US).

While NRCAN freely describes its ratings as "aspirational" rather than trying to be "real world", I can't help but wonder if anyone's getting those kind of numbers!
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:04 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Old 12-12-2012, 10:13 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Arrow The EM Forum politely invites the EPA, NRCAN, and Ford...

to 2 beautiful places this time of year, to settle the score:

Uvalde, Texas Test Track

Chris Allen's Spectacularly Mediocre Blog: Honeymoon Day #8: Winnipeg to Thompson


Please Note: Don't bring your fuel flow meters. We will provide accurate ones for you...

Complimentary heat, cold, boredom and caffeine to round out your experience.

Have a nice stay... we look forward to hearing your feedback. Comment cards will be provided in your glove boxes.

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Old 12-20-2012, 04:37 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Hi Matt,
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recumpence View Post
. . .
I am the only person AFAIK on Ecomodder with a C-Max. . . .
We have at least one member over at PriusChat who is having severe MPG problems with his:
Consumer Reports MPG Result For 2013 Fusion & C-Max Hybrids! | Page 7 | PriusChat
@55 mph 38 MPG
@60 mph 38 MPG
@65 mph 38 MPG
@70 mph 33 MPG
@75 mph 32 MPG
Have you considered doing a 'roll down' test and using the spreadsheet to measure the rolling and aerodynamic drag?

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Old 12-20-2012, 10:39 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Thanks for the link

I just read some of the last couple of pages of that thread. WOW! So Ford dealer takes the owners car for a few days, and returns it to owner saying it is within spec for economy and MPG, so good luck?

And their engineers are on record saying they could have detuned it for more economy, but did not, for a better driving experience?

If you are selling, and people are buying, the hybrid version of a car that also has a non-hybrid version, why would you NOT maximize effeciency in the hybrid version?

Interesting that they (Ford) has not exactly said anything yet regarding the EPA test discrepency, witch is sort of the point, right, that started this discussion and the CR article to begin with? Just sort of deflecting for now, maybe until they can get the audit results back from the EPA first?

Maybe they would have better served to not say anything other than something like 'the EPA has decided to audit our numbers and we will comment further when the EPA testing is complete', instead of questionable PR moves of blaming drivers driving styles, and admitting that they could have detuned for better efficiency, but chose not to.

Keep us posted...
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:05 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Greencarreports had an article last week on this and it basically said that Ford did optimize the car to some extent for the EPA testing. Let me see... ah here it is:

Ford: High Hybrid Mileage May Require No-Fun Delicate Driving

Quote:
On Friday, two company officials addressed the wide discrepancies between real-world mileage delivered by the vehicles--as documented on this site and by Consumer Reports, among others--versus their 47-mpg combined EPA ratings.

Joe Hinrichs, the company's president of the Americas, told The Detroit News that Ford had followed EPA guidelines when testing the cars. (Most carmakers test the cars themselves, then submit test data to the EPA for verification.)

As the Detroit paper noted, "Essentially, the C-Max Hybrid is optimized for the EPA test" because its electric top speed of 62 mph exceeds the highest speed on the EPA's highway test, set at a remarkably low and unrealistic 60 mph.
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:36 AM   #39 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WesternStarSCR View Post
I have never owned a Ford, but I am rooting for all car companies to improve their MPG, and hopefully, have the test methods to back up their results... uggh
The tests are specified by the respective government establishments, and each manufacturer normally has the means and data to back them up.

In the EU, manufacturers have to follow the NEDC. Mandatory.
So they "improve" their cars' ratings on this test.
A large proportion of the NEDC test is at standstill.
Hence the rush towards auto stop/start.
You won't be stopped for that long, relatively speaking, during the car's in-traffic life.

At least VW cylinder deactivation can be used all day in part-load driving conditions.


Any hybrid fools this kind of test by at least partly powering the car off the battery - usually during the low speed part of NEDC - but said energy has to be restored later on in the drive ... or even later by plugging it back in.
But the test isn't long or hard enough to get the battery depleted and then recharged.
Max. electric speed is usually the top speed in the low speed part of NEDC ...

Let's take the Volvo V60 plug in.
Do you honestly believe it'll do on 1.9L/100km ?
That's 124 mpg US.
Well, it does, on the NEDC ... and only there !
Use it beyond the test conditions, or beyond its electric range or speed, and it's just your ordinary, overweight and overpowered diesel-burner !


The only solution is a climate controlled, fully enclosed test track where tests are done at various speeds - until any and all available fuel in the car is drained.
Then see what it consumed while actually driving WITH wind drag (NEDC runs are done on a dyno).
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Old 12-20-2012, 11:43 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joeggernaut View Post
The EPA should just take a few random cars from the manufacturer and test themselves.
As the test procedures are laid out, all companies engineer their vehicles to pass the mandated tests as good as they can.

When real-life driving conditions don't sort of match the test conditions, you can get severe discrepancies.

While many can match EPA numbers, most people here in Europe won't match their car's NEDC numbers.
That's not because they drive with even less concern that the Yanks or idle even more - quite on the contrary, with $8 gas and diesel ... - it's simply because the NEDC test is a far cry from reality.

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