Really considering a Gear Vendor

[kir_kenix]

So I sold off my 2012 Dodge 1 ton (I actually made a profit as far as the IRS is concerned...bummer) and bought a 2004 F250 6.0 diesel by trading in my gutless 2012 Canyon. I know that the 6.0 has a horrible track record for reliability, but I think the aftermarket has taken care of most of the problems when they arise. Picked up this truck with only 16,000 miles...basically brand new.

Now I rarely drive any of the farm trucks unless I'm pulling something or going to get something to pull, so I've never really had a need for a fuel log that can't account for pulling a 12,000 stock trailer, 12 round hay bales, or a dump trailer full of gravel. However, in the last year or so we've been hauling most of the cattle for my father-in-law, and I've seen roughly 100% increase in lightly loaded/unloaded miles heading over to get his cattle and pulling an empty trailer back from the sale barn.

The truck is an auto, supercab, 4x4, with ~3.73 rear end. I run 265/75/16 E rated tires. Will not switch to a manual unfortunately, as my wife has difficulty pulling a trailer and jockeying gears at the same time.

Gear Vendor has a set up for my 5R110W tranny that results in a final ratio of 2.06 vs 2.65 stock (Part #3D0273K). Trans ratio in 5th would go from .71 to .55. It retails for about $3,300, but I see them new from time to time in the $2,500 range. I have heard a lot of hoopla about people claiming 15-20% increase while utilizing the double overdrive lightly loaded. This would be a huge, but as efficiently as I drive now, I doubt I will see that much improvement.

Where I really get burnt economy wise is heading to another state to pick up a couple bred heifers or a lease bull that I will return at the end of the season. On these trips I might go 500 or so miles in one direction with only 3,000lb trailer. My problem is knowing for sure that I could utilize the double overdrive in these conditions due to the aero drag of a massive truck pulling basically a sail. Keep in mind I live in Nebraska, so it is pretty darn flat.

If I can utilize the double overdrive, I could justify picking up more quality cattle without worrying about how much diesel I'm burning. It would effectively make every purchase a little bit cheaper as my operating costs would be lower. I would also haul my neighbors cattle to the sale barn more often if I could save a couple gallons coming back empty and make a few more dollars doing it.

Any of you experienced diesel guys have any ideas on whether this unit is usable in the conditions I've outlined? The final drive improvement should be worth somewhere between 2-2.75 mpg IF I can stay in that drive ratio on the highway. I think it would definitely help 1st thru 3rd gear accelerating when I don't need the stump pulling low ratios that Ford (thankfully) offered in my truck, but I don't spend enough time in these gears to justify the expense on that alone.

I know that Big Dave and a few others have the unit, but if anybody could chime in about the viability of actually being able to utilize the unit while pulling an empty sail of a trailer would really help me out.

Forgot to add, I put about 20,000-22,000 miles on the diesels each year, and would expect maybe 2,000 miles unloaded and maybe 4,000 with an empty or nearly empty trailer.

[darcane]

http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...uts-29272.html

[kir_kenix]

darcane
I had not seen that post before. I know quite a few folks that run these, and none of them have complained about a problem, but I will investigate further. I know they came factory for a while in a couple of Fords, but I can't find any reliability reports for those big vans. I think some Class B RV's from the 90's and early 2000's had these as well, but I haven't been able to hunt one down from a junker RV.

[Big Dave]

First of all, I have finally solved the electrical problem. I put avionics type sealed connectors on the part under the truck and grommetted all the wire penetrations. So far , so good.

There are two other issues. Do try your best to find a used GV. These things new are pricey beyond belief. $3,000+ pricey. Manual adapters are rare and even saltier. I drive 25,000 miles per year and the fuel economy justifies that, but still took three years to pay off.

A bigger problem is the effect of reduced engine RPM on automatic transmission life. Most automotive automatics use the torque converter to pump fluid to the transmission cooler. Lower engine RPM = lower TC RPM = lower fluid flow to the cooler. Less fluid flow means less heat rejection. Transmission temperatures rise up and spectacular transmissions failures (parts and ATF scattered down the road) result. Ask me how I know this.

I used to have a GM pickup with a weenie 6.2 liter diesel and a TH400. I never thought I'd live to see something destroy a TH400. A GV could. Raking the parts up and investigating found ferrous parts (gears, clutch baskets, shafts, and bearings) all turned blue. This is the unmistakable evidence of excessive heat.

If you have a respected automatic transmission builder, you may want to talk to him. Maybe he'll tell you different.

This is the reason you rarely see diesel pickups with less than 3.73 gears (some Fords and Dodges offer 3.55s). Not the engines. My old 444 International does just fine with a GV AND (no longer available) 3.08s but then I have a stick shift. Heat buildup is not an issue on sticks.

Bigger (Model 1000 and up) Allisons can live with a GV because they have auxiliary fluid cooler pumps that maintain big fluid flow at relatively low engine speeds. That's why Allisons are preferred on commercial vehicles and also why Allisons are so darned pricey. You get what you pay for.

All that said, my experience is that the GV (by itself) is worth an additional 2-3 MPG.

For those who like to improve the aerodynamics of their pickup, lowering engine speed at a given road speed allows even greater MPG improvement. I'd love to see what aerohead's truck would do with a righteous diesel and drive train offering him a 1350 RPM (@70 MPH) cruise.

Say a M-B OW617 turbodiesel engine with a Tremec T-56 six speed (0.5:1 top overdrive) and 3.55 gears. The OW617 turbo would give him all day long 125 HP, and is legendary for durability. With aerohead's super-low CdA, 125 HP would be the greatest of plenty, even in Texas.

[kir_kenix]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

First of all, I have finally solved the electrical problem. I put avionics type sealed connectors on the part under the truck and grommetted all the wire penetrations. So far , so good.

There are two other issues. Do try your best to find a used GV. These things new are pricey beyond belief. $3,000+ pricey. Manual adapters are rare and even saltier. I drive 25,000 miles per year and the fuel economy justifies that, but still took three years to pay off.

A bigger problem is the effect of reduced engine RPM on automatic transmission life. Most automotive automatics use the torque converter to pump fluid to the transmission cooler. Lower engine RPM = lower TC RPM = lower fluid flow to the cooler. Less fluid flow means less heat rejection. Transmission temperatures rise up and spectacular transmissions failures (parts and ATF scattered down the road) result. Ask me how I know this.

I used to have a GM pickup with a weenie 6.2 liter diesel and a TH400. I never thought I'd live to see something destroy a TH400. A GV could. Raking the parts up and investigating found ferrous parts (gears, clutch baskets, shafts, and bearings) all turned blue. This is the unmistakable evidence of excessive heat.

If you have a respected automatic transmission builder, you may want to talk to him. Maybe he'll tell you different.

This is the reason you rarely see diesel pickups with less than 3.73 gears (some Fords and Dodges offer 3.55s). Not the engines. My old 444 International does just fine with a GV AND (no longer available) 3.08s but then I have a stick shift. Heat buildup is not an issue on sticks.

Bigger (Model 1000 and up) Allisons can live with a GV because they have auxiliary fluid cooler pumps that maintain big fluid flow at relatively low engine speeds. That's why Allisons are preferred on commercial vehicles and also why Allisons are so darned pricey. You get what you pay for.

All that said, my experience is that the GV (by itself) is worth an additional 2-3 MPG.

For those who like to improve the aerodynamics of their pickup, lowering engine speed at a given road speed allows even greater MPG improvement. I'd love to see what aerohead's truck would do with a righteous diesel and drive train offering him a 1350 RPM (@70 MPH) cruise.

Say a M-B OW617 turbodiesel engine with a Tremec T-56 six speed (0.5:1 top overdrive) and 3.55 gears. The OW617 turbo would give him all day long 125 HP, and is legendary for durability. With aerohead's super-low CdA, 125 HP would be the greatest of plenty, even in Texas.

You have given me a lot to mull over considering transmission temps. We have also destroyed multiple TH400's on even non turbo diesel engines. Auxiliary oil coolers help, but that amount of torque at the relatively low RPM seem to thrash them sooner or later. The local transmission guy loved my dad...

I'll talk to my guy and see if he thinks the low RPM will cause the tranny to run hot, and if there is an easy solution that will work to cure this. A cooler would help, but without proper flow I guess it would heat up eventually.

How does the Gear Vendor work towing? I assume most of the miles in your beast are loaded, and I'd be interested to hear how often you are able to use the double overdrive in those situations.

I'm kind of limited on aero, simply because of where I live/work and what I need the truck to do. A soft tonneau would work (too bad my 8 footer won't fit without surgery), but I hook up to a gooseneck and fill the box too often for a topper. Hate to sacrifice ride height because my wife would have to get out of the truck in the winter to see over feed bunks. Anything lower than the axles would get damaged driving through a field. It's still going to be a brick at the end of the day.

I really like the fastback you built. I could cobble/weld something up that would approximate what you have and still let me pull a gooseneck.

Thanks for your suggestions, and I'll try to see what I can dig up regarding possible transmission damage.

[aerohead]

I took a look at some numbers for the Dodge RAMs with gas and Diesel.It looked like the EcoDiesel was good for about a 13.5% mph hwy improvement.
With something like that in the T-100 I might see 31.7-to-42.5 mpg at 65-75-mph.
That would be pretty interesting.

[kir_kenix]

I called my tranny guy a little bit ago. He suggested that I stay away from the Gear Vendor in the stock tranny because the filter is restrictive. He told me I would have to put an '08 pan on the truck and the full-flow filter that was used in later transmissions. Sounds legit to me, seeing as he understands all this stuff. I also didn't realize the transmission thermostat doesn't even open until 150*F, so that the majority of my tranny fluid wasn't making it to my external filter until it is many miles down the road.

For now I'm going to look for a used unit that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I found a used one in Texas (I'm currently in Wichta Falls Tx getting some Air Force training) for $500 that would probably bolt up...but it is an older model that is either "on" or "off" depending on driver input. Sounds like a disaster if my wife put it in 4x4 with it on. If I was more tech savvy I'm sure there is a way to electronically disable it when the 4x4 comes on like the new ones do.

[freebeard]

Livestock Haulers Gain from NASA Space Technology | Archive content from Trailer Body Builders

This article doesn't include illustrations, maybe you could find those through:

https://www.google.com/#q=livestock+...r+aerodynamics

Long story short—poorly ventilated trailers (all of them) stress the livestock. Vents at the forward 1/3 don't admit air, NACA ducts are good.

Do you own the trailer? Visit the Aerodynamics subforum to find out how to reduce the stress on your transmission.

[kir_kenix]

Originally Posted by freebeard

Livestock Haulers Gain from NASA Space Technology | Archive content from Trailer Body Builders

This article doesn't include illustrations, maybe you could find those through:

https://www.google.com/#q=livestock+...r+aerodynamics

Long story short—poorly ventilated trailers (all of them) stress the livestock. Vents at the forward 1/3 don't admit air, NACA ducts are good.

Do you own the trailer? Visit the Aerodynamics subforum to find out how to reduce the stress on your transmission.

I hear ya about stressing livestock. Pretty common for them to lose weight the first week or so once they have been on a long (over 2 hour) trip in the heat. Doesn't sound like a big deal until you figure most of these breeds should be putting on 1.5-2 lbs/day. Yeah, we own or have access to a multitude of trailers.

Livestock trailers are aerodynamic nightmares. There is a lot that can be gained here. HOWEVER, they are assets that get the heck beat out of them, depreciate for a fixed number of years (usually 5), then get sold off. Nobody wants a trailer that somebody has done a bunch of aerodynamic "improvement" to. Sad, but true. I usually buy 2 to 3 year old trailers that have seen very little mileage, depreciate them, and sell them off.

If I were only hauling a small number of cattle a few times a year, I would go to town on setting up a trailer for fuel economy/livestock comfort. Unfortunately, that's not realistic to us with the way the IRS works, trailers wear, etc, etc. I frequently use other peoples trailers to haul as well, so not much I can do there.

I did find another gear vendor set for my vehicle that somebody bought and never installed (all the electronics and such as well) for $1500. Heading to Dallas tomorrow to take a look at it, but I expect I will buy it.

[kir_kenix]

Regarding the NASA article...

"In their study, they stipulate that in excess of 5% of the cattle shipped to feeder lots die before or shortly after arrival from shipping fever."

Absolutely no way that ANY cattle lot anywhere loses 5% of them in the first few days. That would literally run hundreds of thousands of dollars in loss for a small lot. Millions upon millions in any of the larger lots. An average loss is somewhere around 2-2.5% of cattle for the entire duration of them living there. Some come in sick (they will take the risk on a rough looking feeder steer if the price is right...), some get sick there, some break legs, others seem to commit suicide, etc etc.

Also:

"There will be some significant changes in livestock trailers in the not-too-distant future," says Saltzman. "The technology is there. Now it's just a matter of economic pressure being applied to make it cost effective for the industry to change its style."

I hope this is true. Judging from the way this industry works, I think it will be slow and take decades. I could see the semi's that haul pigs going this route though eventually. They haul them oinkers a looooong ways sometimes, and they really pack them in there.