Return of the Stripper

[Big Dave]

All the talk about the proposed bailout of the Detroit Three says they need to build cars Americans want. Everyone seems to think The only thing that will sell is some sort of Prius clone. I don’t buy that.

I think the Detroit three need to make changes so they can make a workable profit off a stripper – a bare-bones, plain-jane car. Minimal options. Basic transportation at low price.

When I was a kid my father bought such a car. A 1962 Chevy Biscayne. A 250 six-cylinder engine with a Rochester one-barrel. A three on the tree. No A/C. Vinyl upholstery. A Delco AM radio. Roll-up windows. An enormous trunk. No power brakes or steering. As I recall, it cost about $1,800 at the time. As with most cars of the time, maybe 20 MPG, tops. Carried a family of five with room to spare.

I don’t think they make anything quite like that now. If they did, they’d lose their shirts on it. With their current legacy cost burden, the Detroit Three have to get a minimum of $30,000 for a car to make any working profit. Hence they advertise the bejeebers out of their upscale stuff.

You can buy a car that is somewhat like that old 62 Biscayne, although I don’t think it is up to the standards of the old Biscayne. You can get a Kia Rio base sedan for about $11,500 sticker. A 1.6 liter 4 cylinder stick shift. No A/C. Very cheesy sheet metal. Will hold four midgets and five if one is an infant. Not overly impressive gas mileage for such a little car - about 33 MPG highway. Rios sell briskly. Must be a lot of midgets out there.

Yeah, the Tahoes and Escalades have to become niche vehicles again and not GM’s bread and butter vehicles.

What would today’s version of that old Biscayne look like?

Not as big outside as that old chromium bulldozer but something about the size of a Pontiac G8. (Physical size does not much affect vehicle manufacturing cost). Big enough to carry two adults and three teenagers. A big trunk. Make it front-engine, rear drive. You still cannot beat the old Carden drive scheme for ease of manufacture. Use the GM 2.0 liter EcoTech engine with a five speed manual. “2-70” air conditioning. Roll-up windows, manual door locks. (Let the Chinese keep their permanent magnet devices). You’d need power brakes – discs need power assist. Gotta have the air bags to satisfy Uncle Sam. No navigation. No built-in DVD player. In fact, minimal electronics. Vinyl interior. Minimal chrome (chrome has gotten expensive). What you do is to emulate the Scion and make it easy for the customer to hang aftermarket goodies on it as he/she can afford it. Make it a bit more sturdy than a Kia Rio. Try to get it built under 2,800 lb curb weight. Sell it for $15,000 sticker. They’d fly off the lots.

Could the Detroit Three make a decent profit on such a car? Maybe a demostrated ability to build such a car for $15,000 and make a workable per-unit profit should be a condition of bailout money.

It is an axiom of the car biz that any knucklehead can build a Ferrari if he throws enough money at it. It takes a genius to build a Model T or the original VW Beetle.

[Ford Man]

Sorry, I don't think they would sell as long as other cars are available. Too many people have to have top of the line options and want to keep up with the Jones. I heard on the news just one day last week that SUV sales were increasing again in the Charlotte, NC area since gas prices have dropped to about $2. a gallon. I would probably buy something like that with the exception of not having A/C. After all my '88 Escort Pony is as plain Jane as it gets no A/C, no radio, no P/S, and a 4 speed manual transmission, my brother bought it new in '88 for $5888. It was run in a newspaper ad to draw a crowd so they could try to sell them something more expensive. I think my brother told me when he went in to see about it the salesman wasn't even sure whether they had one on the lot or not.

[PonchoBuick]

I'm sure there would be people who would go for such a car. Unfortunately the profit would be questionable as I think too many folks these days expect a certain amount of creature comforts. The only concession I'd have in that type of car would be the addition of a minimal audio system, i.e. a cd/mp3 player with 4 speakers. Not crazy about vinyl seats either, but that's what WalMart has seat covers for, right?

Big Dave, I remember such a car in my family. Belonged to my grandfather then handed down to dad, then to me (was too far gone by the time I got it though). A 1981 Chevy Malibu Classic wagon. 229 CI V6 with dualjet carb, TH250 tranny, no AC, vinyl seats, AM radio, basic hubcaps, got 25 mpg on the highway and 19-20 in town. I miss the simplicity of such a car.


Aaron

[UK Mark]

Dave, apart from being rear drive, the car you have just described is a fairly typical entry level UK car, just with slightly lower trim and a slightly bigger engine. Try looking at a couple of UK websites and you'll see what I mean. Try Ford :: home and Vauxhall (this is what GM sell in the UK) or ww.toyota.co.uk. Don't be put off by the prices. For some odd reason, UK cars are sold at a premium price. That means if these cars were sold in the US you would probably pay in dollars not much more than the price quoted in pounds stirling. To give you a rough idea how they compare, the US spec Dodge Caliber SXT lists at $18,230. The UK spec version, which is very similar, is £14,505 (see The All New Dodge Journey). The US spec Ford Focus starts at $14,995, whilst the UK spec car (slightly smaller and available with smaller engines) starts at £12,795. Have a look and see what you think, just remember fuel consumption on the UK site is in Imperial gallons. I can see a potential for world manufacturers (GM, Ford etc) to take their Euro spec cars and, with a few subtle changes, bring them into the US. If they don't, it won't be long before the Japanese spot how well the Kia Rio is selling and start bringing in near Euro or Japanese spec cars instead of concentrating on US specific cars. Just check the Toyota sites. Very few cars will be found on both the US and UK sites. I think its just a matter of time before they realise they can cut production costs by building the same basic car for both sides of the Atlantic (and Pacific) and make only subtle changes to suit local markets. After all, BMW, Mercedes and VW all do pretty well selling the same cars everywhere. Certainly food for thought.

[jamesqf]

But why would anyone buy something like that, when for about the same money they could get a Honda Fit?

[tasdrouille]

Right here up north you can pull 11,000 USD cash out of your pocket and drive out with a brand new Elantra without even dealing the price. I just checked, the Elantra have 4 inches less shoulder room and rear leg room, but 2 inches more front leg room and an inch more head room than the G8. It's a bit smaller than your target size, but also costs quite a lot less than 15k.

[trebuchet03]

I share SVO's sentiment.... Buying new cars isn't going to solve the problem at large - people not living their wage and buying what they can't afford on credit. If you're barely making your mortgage payment for that too big of a house you bought a few years ago... o.0 I'm nor so sure we can spend our way out of this pickle.

I know there's a few of you on this board - but who is currently driving a car they bought new, from the dealer? I believe most of us aren't (even those of us that could afford a new car).

BTW, Big Dave - I just looked at your fuel log, those are some mighty fine numbers


-----
On another note, I did see a pretty bad Ford local dealer commercial the other day... It said "don't buy because it's American, buy because it has the same quality as Toyota." That wasn't the bad part - at the end of the commercial it said to buy "for the environment... the economy... {something that escapes me at the moment}"

An oxymoron :/

[elhigh]

Originally Posted by Big Dave

It is an axiom of the car biz that any knucklehead can build a Ferrari if he throws enough money at it. It takes a genius to build a Model T or the original VW Beetle.

Man, ain't that the truth.


Add enough "value" and you can reel in enough buyers just by dazzling them with bling. It's not a big deal if you can put together a meal with enough herbs, spices, toppings and courses that everybody finds something they like. But can you do it with just the meat and potatoes? You'd better be damned good with potatoes, and know how to slap a steak on the grill in such a way that 90% of everybody loves it, and the rest are merely satisfied.

I think that day has come and gone. People in general have become far too accustomed to having it their way all the time. They believe they deserve to be distracted all the time - driving now, texting in a moment, watching a DVD right after that. Or God forbid, all three at once.

Would anybody buy a car like that, no add-on doodads? Sure. I did. I still have it, but I confess I did add a nice stereo after the original stereo - which itself did not come with the truck - died a grisly death after 10 years of spilled drinks and scorching hot summers with no AC.

But I'll tell you one feature your stripper car absolutely must have: vent windows. Nothing makes "no AC" quite so bearable as being able to point that blast right where you want it.

[Christ]

The true idea of value has been thrown askew by the idea that things have to be big and shiny... yet the largest vehicle I've objectively owned was a Plymouth Volare... (Objectively, in this case, meaning "with purpose")

Obviously, we don't want to be uncomfortable in our driving practices... hence the need for a mid-size (at least) vehicle. But who really needs all that damn space in a Yukon Denali, or an Escalade?

Do you really need auto-adjusting suspension as a standard option?

One of the reasons that companies like Honda/Acura are still selling is b/c they're modular... not that they've "gone modular", they always have been. An engine from a 5th gen Civic is a direct bolt-in for a 4th gen/2nd gen CRX. The 6th gen is also backward compatible.... some 7th gens as well... Same with Acura's Integra. All the same B-series engine... (essentially) They've recycled engine designs, not to save money, but because there is no need to fix what is already working fine. They've tweaked designs here and there, but by no means has Honda gone through major reconstruction in the last 20 years.

In fact, the '99 Si model in USDM trim was the FIRST time a Civic had used anything other than a D-series engine since 1984. (EW and EV engines are also referred to as D-series.) 15 years of minor revisions, lacking a major reconstruction. And noone has complained. They're still one of the best bases for driveability, ease of modification (due to the modular designs) and they make a great platform for most common uses for automobiles.

Until the US auto makers come up with something like this, something that actually works, and isn't prone to breaking (usually thought to be a way of revenue guarantee), they're doomed. Oh, and they have to do it for less than the Jap auto makers now.. since it's been let go for so long.

Trouble is, they'll find a way to do it, and noone will know that they cut out safety as a means of saving money in production until it's too late.

[flame proof suit on]

That's just my $0.02

[ATaylorRacing]

Originally Posted by tasdrouille

Right here up north you can pull 11,000 USD cash out of your pocket and drive out with a brand new Elantra without even dealing the price. I just checked, the Elantra have 4 inches less shoulder room and rear leg room, but 2 inches more front leg room and an inch more head room than the G8. It's a bit smaller than your target size, but also costs quite a lot less than 15k.

The Nissan Versa starts at only $9990 and a 1.6-107 hp motor, but with options goes for $15,990 with no AC and no radio listed. AC is another $1K, and a 1.8-122 hp motorwith AC and am/fm/cd radio is priced at $12,990. The top model at the afore mentioned price of just under $16K has: 15" Aluminum-alloy wheels Power windows and door locks Remote keyless entry Cruise control Premium AM/FM/in-dash 6-CD audio system with MP3 CD playback and auxiliary input jack [1] 60/40-split rear seats Vehicle Security System