the slip: shifting without using the clutch

[justjohn]

Originally Posted by comptiger5000

I'd say coming in a little high is probably better for wear, as the revs are already falling as it engages, vs the clutch having to pull them up against engine braking.

Okay, thanks.

[larrybuck]

I understand the beauty and the art of it; but agree that most people with an expensive to them car, are not going to feel comfortable as a newby trying this. I've enjoyed learning this on someone elses big rig.. and I'm extremely comfortable doing it all the time w motorcycles, but my comfort level just isn't there with a car I PAID FOR! It's like the brakes are cheaper than high performance downshifting thoughts. If you are hypermiling a motorcycle, I hope you are using the clutch down to neutral to coast final approach to stop signs and lights which you KNOW will still be red. If I approach a slow speed sharp corner, and want 2 or 3 gears down right away; I'm going to use the clutch. Motorcycles have that dog design, which is very strong. I would advise newer riders to gradually test upshifts from 1st gear up. Only after you're happy there; little by little, try a downshift, say before a 35 mph curve that you're rapidly approaching in top gear... It's harder, but you've got to listen and be attentive...not for everybody! Speaking of smoothness: do most of you have light enough gas pedals (most late model) that you could drive in your socks for added sensitivity... for even better mpg's? I realize most older (70's...back) vehicles have very stiff gas feeds, but they can be modified quite easily! I used to drive old Ford Econoline vans..Very stiff... I used to have a cool boss who gave me permission to have the mechanic who serviced our company fleet drill out and unhook the stiff linkage, making 200plus daily miles routes through mountain roads a pleasure!

[larrybuck]

PS... for longer drives in socks; I recommend a smallish pillow for under your right heel, because w/o shoes, the hard floor will eventually make it sore!!!

[ecofiero151ci]

there is always mechanical wear when any part moves. weather its the clutch or the gears. i have seen a few transmissions in my day and the only ones that showed massive ammounts of wear is when people dont know how to work a manual (learners, bad taught drivers, ec...) or when people ride the clutch constantly. my dad always taught me one thing. its not the car, its the driver. as well double clutching can be done a low engine speeds. they are just asociated with racing cause its much smoother to downshift at high speeds with a double clutch procedure.

Originally Posted by Ryland

Shifting without a clutch just seems like a bad idea having had taken apart motorcycle transmissions and replacing automotive transmissions and driving vehicles that require you to double clutch, even if you don't feel it grinding it is still causing more wear to the syncros and to the bearings because it is putting a harsh sudden load, using the clutch takes all of the load off the moving gears, double clutching and matching the engine RPMs will also help in reducing wear but if you plan to drive fast enough that you feel you have to drive like this then please stay off the public road ways.

[sc2dave]

Originally Posted by ShadeTreeMech

How many of these were extensivelyshifted without a clutch? I suspect few of them, most people use the clutch everytime.
I've been able to upshift so smoothly there was no perceptible change in vehicle momentum.


I would say for those who aren't technically skillful and for whom details bore them, shifting without the clutch is a bad idea. For me, clutchless shifting on a motorcycle is as easy as pie and is actually quicker than using the clutch,



To me, using the clutch every time makes driving a manual more of a chore and less the joy it can be by at least eliminating up shift clutching. To be quite honest, I never watched the tachometer while shifting, but rather listened to the engine and learned how to do it by feel. it is a skill they pride themselves in, and few say they wished they never had learned how to do it.

]

MY THOUGHTS EXACTLY.I've even mastered the downshifting w/o clutch on my '89 gsxr with no problems.

[brucepick]

I used to shift our old '76 Corolla 4-spd without clutching.

I might have tried it on my current Civic but the 4th + 5th speed synchro rings seem to be going bad. Every so often it will grind when I slip it into gear, with the clutch down.