some honda autos get better mileage than manuals?

[dcb]

computers are good at very specific/limited domain/timing critical issues. I can see them playing a role in a more efficient "manual transmission" even, i.e. Tesla Roadster's 98% efficient transmission nominated for innovation award

where a computer controls shifting to avoid breaking gear teeth, though it would be a simple thing to put a solenoid on the clutch and hit the "I'm feeling lazy" button, but where it is primarily a thing designed for efficiency.

Computers (and frequently their programmers) do not have "judgement", and when they do it will be a short trip to singularity

But I did read an article, where average chess players are beating pros and computer alike by taking advice from, but not submitting total control over to, computers. There seems evident that technology can improve various aspects of performance, but we have to remember that they are all glorified "toasters" and not panaceas.

The point is that technology is neither good or bad, but that it is a toolkit, and knowing when/how to use such a toolkit is the key to improvement/optimization.

[cookie96civic]

My driving is 95% highway. I'll take the auto with the longer ratio. We all know you can hypermile with the manual, but coasting to 25mph and shutting off and bump starting the car 25 times per trip gets real old in a hurry. I had to add 6 minutes to each leg of my work commute using those techniques. It is fun to see what the car can do....but very impratical.

[MetroMPG]

Re: extended pulse & glide...

Originally Posted by cookie96civic

It is fun to see what the car can do....but very impratical.

Agreed.

Depending on a person's driving regimen, I'd recommend a taller-geared slushbox if it made sense (ie. vast majority of their driving is highway).

[SentraSE-R]

A manual with properly planned gear ratios and an intelligent driver is always better, IMHO. Automatics throw too much away with TC slippage during acceleration and climbing hills. A MT driver runs away on downhill coasts and coasting to stops. If someone's drive is 95% highway, both AT and MT are in top gear 95% of the time, so what's the point in paying $1000 more for the AT? Because it saves four tedious manual gearshifts per day?

[PaleMelanesian]

Re: pulse and glide on the highway is impractical.

I just finished a cross-country trip in the new Fiesta. It has poor gear ratios (2600 rpm @ 60 mph). The two of us pulsed and glided the whole way from LA to Savannah. We estimated it took about 5000 p&g cycles.

Yeah, that's a bit extreme. It works, though. We ended up with 63.5 mpg with a load of gear and two bodies on board, upsized "sport" tires and sticky rubber.

Give me a manual any day, even with bad gear ratios. I'll P&G the heck out of it. That's what I do every day. (about 25 times each way )

[MetroMPG]

Andrew - wow, epic P&G trip!

I've largely given up P&G for longer trips, though I'll do it on shorter ones (and portions of longer ones).

Partly because I find it tedious, partly because it's got to be harder on the mechanicals. EG: 5000 clutch applications vs. a couple dozen! Even if they're expertly done (I'm sure yours are/were), that clutch, internals & linkages have to have more wear on it.

Originally Posted by SentraSE-R

A manual with properly planned gear ratios and an intelligent driver is always better, IMHO.

Goes without saying!

If someone's drive is 95% highway, both AT and MT are in top gear 95% of the time, so what's the point in paying $1000 more for the AT?

Answer would depend on the fuel consumption difference and the amount of driving. Easy formula. No cookie cutter answer. Anyone seriously weighing the options has gotta do the math.

[PaleMelanesian]

It was Mike Sefton and I driving.

We did encounter a little grinding at first when reengaging 5th with the engine off. Solution: hold the clutch in for a few seconds first, then it pops in with no trouble. We speculate there are some spinning parts that need to slow down.

[jakobnev]

Originally Posted by PaleMelanesian

It was Mike Sefton and I driving.

We did encounter a little grinding at first when reengaging 5th with the engine off. Solution: hold the clutch in for a few seconds first, then it pops in with no trouble. We speculate there are some spinning parts that need to slow down.

I've noticed this too, and i'd say it's the input shaft that needs to spin up after being stopped by the engine while the clutch pedal was up.

[PaleMelanesian]

That sounds plausible. Whatever the case, it prevents grinding the gears. That's a good thing.