Somebody ACTUALLY patented a Stirling Series...

[basslover911]

I am a full time entrepreneur, running a few of my own companies. Often I come across many engineers and great thinkers seeking investments (which I can get because of the people that I am networked with).

So long story short, they actually patented a Stirling Series power plant. In other words, a sterling engine driving an electric generator with thermocouples in between to extract extra energy from the exhaust heat. All this connected to some batteries and ultimately an electric engine.

(Ill get the patent number tomorrow if this thread gets enough interest).

I found it very peculiar that they were able to patent this, since I have personally started many threads about this kind of hybrid as well as many of others here, how had nobody patented this yet?

Thing is, they want 2.9 Million to convert an existing vehicle (build the prototype) and drive it across the US in ONE tank of gas (40 gallons according to them). I just thought I would share my meeting with these guys today.

SO, what do you think? Plausible? Good Idea? According to them the stirling engine is perfect because it creates much less pollution due to not having to get a pressurized flame and it can use any type of gas (and according to them they were also able to solve the "hydrogen embrittlement" problem - whatever this means).


(FYI, I, as an investor, am not actually going to do this because from a business viewpoint 2.9 million is WAY to much to create a working prototype- im not sure how much of that is to pay themselves).

[California98Civic]

Originally Posted by basslover911

they want 2.9 Million to convert an existing vehicle (build the prototype) and drive it across the US in ONE tank of gas (40 gallons according to them). ... what do you think? Plausible? Good Idea?

NYC - LA = 2790 miles. Divide that by 40 gallons and get about 69-70 mpg. I can almost do that in my modified 1998 Honda.

[basslover911]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

NYC - LA = 2790 miles. Divide that by 40 gallons and get about 69-70 mpg. I can almost do that in my modified 1998 Honda.

Yep I know. Their whole deal is to get and document peoples reaction to a "new type of power plant" for cars and then go sell this patent to big auto manufacturers.

Hm.

[Ladogaboy]

Not to toot my own horn, but I'm reasonably certain I could do much more than build a prototype for $2.9. With what's left over, I could probably send a chimpanzee into space... or at least a pig.

[Peter7307]

Originally Posted by basslover911

... and it can use any type of gas (and according to them they were also able to solve the "hydrogen embrittlement" problem - whatever this means).

An interesting item and I am sure it will gain plenty of attention although translating that to investment dollars is another topic altogether.

The "Hydrogen embrittlement" mentioned happens when any element of hydrogen is in direct contact with steel.

The result is a structural weakening of the steel which can then result in the failure of the steel component.

Legislation in many areas do not allow suspension components to be chrome plated for this reason.
Nickel plating is often a viable alternative.

The solution is simply a barrier (non hydrogen permeable obviously) to be placed between the steel and the hydrogen source.

Typically glass or glass fibre liners are the simplest way to avoid such contact although there are more exotic and expensive ways to solve the problem.

Peter.

[jakobnev]

So long story short, they actually patented a Stirling Series power plant. In other words, a sterling engine driving an electric generator with thermocouples in between to extract extra energy from the exhaust heat.

I don't think that that's even the best way of doing it. I think passing the exhausts through a heat exchanger that heats the intake air would be both a cheaper and more efficient solution.

[Vekke]

Have they already received the patent or just applied it? Also you can patent almost anything, its a whole another case will the patent be genuine if someone wants to sue you to court for violating someones previous patent or they just prove that it is not a new invention. Like you said you have already talked about similar thing here so just that might be enough for the patent not accepted. Usually the patent officers dont search the ecomodder forum for references, but if someone is pissed about someones patent for something he will find usually way to prove that its not new invention.

Again I know most of EU patent laws and not so much about US stuff.

What comes to fuel economy or that challenge I could drive that coast to coast with 3L Lupo speeds over 62 MPH and pass it clearly. So I dont think that fuel consumtion figure or the amount of fuel dont tell how good the machine is. I they are able to do that journey in a stock Ford F-250 then I would think big car companies would get interested... They already know how to make cars which can do 100 MPG @ 62 mph easily they just arent manufacturing those yet.

Improve the product 10% every year in all aspects is their target. That is why they dont want to meet the cafe standards because its too big improvement.

[Old Mechanic]

Originally Posted by basslover911

Yep I know. Their whole deal is to get and document peoples reaction to a "new type of power plant" for cars and then go sell this patent to big auto manufacturers.

Hm.

I started on that pathway in 2003 with a Patent application for an engine that could "transform" itself into a flywheel, using it's own mass as the storage platform.

In my old Insight I could get 70.2 MPG so with 40 gallons of fuel that works out to 2800 miles and the Insight was an automatic (CVT).

When I realized that no auto manufacturer was going to try to develop and build the design and the Patent Office was fighting me every inch of the way on approval, I decided to change my tactics in 2006. The resulting Patent
US#7677208 was issued in March 2010 and I am working on a functional vehicle prototype with my personal funding at this time.

My budget is about 1% of your quoted 2.9 million. I can't see that amount of money spent on any conversion, but engine builds from scratch can easily get exorbitantly expensive. Actually if you follow hypermiling fairly extensively the engine is not really the source of inefficiency, it's the power train that has the potential for the greatest improvement. Not that the engine is not a significant contributing factor. Argonne Labs is currently doing research with the objective of achieving 60% energy conversion efficiency in an IC engine.
Most passenger cars engines can get to peaks of 34-43% efficiency right now, with the most efficient engine reaching 53% in the giant low speed diesels in large container ships.


Bottom line is the huge increase in efficiency we would like to see in the near future will be done with some form of capacitive storage and release of short term energy supplies. This means the (pulse and glide) operational tactic employed by those who achieve more than double EPA mileage ratings employ EXACTLY the same tactic. Operating the engine at only maximum efficiency then shutting it off and coasting with the inertia stored in the mass of the vehicle itself.

The obvious progression of this method is to provide some form of internal storage and release of inertial forces to allow the vehicle speed to remain constant while using the pulse and glide strategy for the engine, with the frequency of the pulses depending on average energy demands over time.

If the people you are considering investing can provide you with tangible independently accumulated evidence of their process being successful, without being "embellished" with exorbitant claims then that would accentuate their credibility, but then you already know that.

My design was investigated by a class of Virginia Tech engineering students and given a positive report as far as being a significant improvement over conventional power trains.

The EPA spent a lot of time (and our money) to research and develop hydraulic hybrids with a test mule weighing 3800 pounds that got 80 MPG.

Other designs are also being developed by INNAS and Artemis, hydraulic hybrids that offer double current EPA mileage in the same vehicle.

regards
Mech

[JRMichler]

Originally Posted by basslover911

So long story short, they actually patented a Stirling Series power plant. In other words, a sterling engine driving an electric generator with thermocouples in between to extract extra energy from the exhaust heat. All this connected to some batteries and ultimately an electric engine.

Practical Stirling engines all have heat exchangers. The exhaust temperature is so low that thermocouples are useless.

Thermocouples are, as a practical matter, useless even with the hot exhaust of an I.C. engine because their efficiency is so low.

[MorphDaCivic]

Great discussuion. In the past year I have met two people who work for a company in Pasco, WA that make large electrical generator plants using solar mirrors, high temp helium gas and a stirling engine. Amazing technology.

Not sure if this is the company, but appears to have just filed for bankrupcy.
UPDATE: Stirling Energy Systems' Bankruptcy Latest In Solar Industry Woes - WSJ.com

Here a link for the American Stiriling company, they sell educational kits.
Stirling Engine or Sterling Engine by American Stirling Company

And one for the Quaisturbine Stiling engine
Quasiturbine Stirling Engine (Sterling) - Rotary Hot Air Motor - Heat Pump

I thought at least one car manufacture already made a stirling engine car, but google shows nothing.