Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 06-13-2012, 04:53 PM   #11 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,861
Thanks: 23,922
Thanked 7,207 Times in 4,640 Posts
Kers

Quote:
Originally Posted by mechman600 View Post
All F1 cars have a moveable flap on the rear spoiler. DRS - drag reduction system. There is a DRS detection zone, usually a turn or two before the main straight. If you are within one second of the car ahead of you when you pass this detection zone, your DRS will be enabled for the DRS zone - usually the last half of the main straight. A car with DRS activated typically has a 20-30 km/h advantage by the end of the straight. It is a way to encourage passing. This is the ONLY active aero mod allowed in F1.

Another cool F1 feature is KERS - kinetic energy recovery system. All cars have regenerative braking that charges a battery pack to a maximum capacity of 400 KJ with a maximum output of 80 hp. This equates to a maximum of 6.67 seconds of boost per lap. Drivers use it strategically to gain time here and there around the track, or to fend off a DRS enabled car attempting to get around them.
So KERS is like a dyslexic hybrid?

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 06-13-2012, 04:56 PM   #12 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,861
Thanks: 23,922
Thanked 7,207 Times in 4,640 Posts
pass

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Yes, the DRS (drag reduction system) is on all the cars and it is for use only on 1 (or 2) zones on the track -- the following car must be less than 1s behind at a particular point just prior to the DRS zone, which is usually the longest straight. This rule has been there for 2 years. It helps raise the competition by making it more likely for cars to pass.
It seemed that the cars were so closely matched,that the DRS was the only technology which actually enabled a pass.A technological 'slingshot.'
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 05:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,861
Thanks: 23,922
Thanked 7,207 Times in 4,640 Posts
Schumacher

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat Charlie View Post
The best aero tweak this year is on the Mercedes cars (Schumacher and Rosberg). When their DRS activates, the end plate of the moveable wing element exposes an air inlet on the main wing end plate. They have ducts going all the way through the car to the front wing. Everyone else's DRS reduces the area of the rear wing, but the Mercedes also stalls out the front wing, reducing drag even further. They get an even bigger benefit in qualifying, where they can use it whenever they want.

Touching the brakes disables the DRS, bringing the downforce back at the end of the straight to help with braking and cornering.
Schumacher was forced out of the race when the system failed on him.The crew did everything they could with compressed air to unclog the system,but to no avail.
Another car had a wad of tire rubber stuck to the leading edge of it's rear lower spoiler and the announcers said that the wing performance would be severely compromised with this excrescence fouling the airflow.
Pretty high strung mounts!
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 06:51 PM   #14 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Silly-Con Valley
Posts: 1,479
Thanks: 201
Thanked 262 Times in 199 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Flakbadger View Post
I am also surprised that there haven't been more race cars with active aero...
There were in the 60s. The original Big Wing Chaparral had a driver-controlled wing, in fact. Porsche decided that it would be better to use wings that were actuated by suspension movement on their 908 and the early 917. After the failure of a couple of other suspension-mounted aero devices, resulting in high-speed wrecks, the rulesmakers declared any aero device that moved was illegal. I believe this was right before Le Mans in 1969.

Porsche argued that they were integral to the design of the 917, and the car was undriveable without them. (It was just about undriveable with them, too.) They compromised, removing the articulation from the flaps on the 908s but leaving them fully functional on the 917s. (I don't think any of the latter finished the race at all, though.)

The flaps would deflect upwards when the suspension drooped, meaning that the inboard side would be pressed down. Under braking, the tail would rise and so both sides would be pushed down by the flaps. On the straights, the flaps were flat and produced little downforce and little drag.

...Yeah, as I mentioned earlier I'm still reading through Excellence was Expected...

-soD
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 08:12 PM   #15 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Fresno, CA
Posts: 134

Deceptive - '98 Dodge Neon R/T
90 day: 44.38 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3
Thanked 18 Times in 14 Posts
^Not only were moving aero devices ruled against for the wrecks, but the chapparal fan car played a huge part in that.
__________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 10:14 PM   #16 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Posts: 2,173
Thanks: 1,739
Thanked 589 Times in 401 Posts
As regards the title... DRS didn't give Hamilton that win. Good driving and excellent tire preservation did. All it did, really, was enable him to pass Fernando Alonso a bit more easily... as Alonso's car didn't have the grip (cold tires) or pace to keep the McLaren at bay.

-

It isn't just DRS that enables passing.

A lot of the variability this season comes from the fact that the current tires are "fragile"... in other words, they grain easily, flat-spot easily and lose grip easily.

Easily compared to the previous Bridgestones, mind you... that some drivers can complete races on just two sets of tires points to the fact that these aren't terribly ineffective tires... but the need to balance wear against pace makes for a wide variety of strategies... some of which work. Some don't.

In Canada, the winner did a two stop / three stint run, whereas second and third did a one stop / two stint run. Another one stop / two stint driver almost won, but his tires "fell off the cliff" several laps before the end... and another, who was in second, had to make a last minute pitstop, but still ended up fourth.

They don't even need the DRS or DRS restrictions. I think they should just let the drivers use them whenever they want... as this makes for better fuel economy, too. KERS is similarly restricted. There's a strict limit to KERS output and how many seconds of boost you can use per lap. If they'd removed that, the amount of kinetic energy harvested per lap could give them several to a dozen more seconds of boost... and even better economy.

2014 will be a big year for F1, as they switch to 1.5 liter turbocharged V6s.... lowering fuel consumption even more. Hopefully, they'll pair them with even bigger KERS batteries to keep single-lap pace similar.

-

Some might say that all this focus on fuel-consumption in-race is merely greenwashing... and considering the huge amount of fuel used in F1 logistics... transporting two-to-three cars per team and their huge trailers of equipment from country to country takes much more fuel than the cars will ever use on the track... that's somewhat true...

But fuel economy matters in racing. Red Bull Racing have won the past two years partially because they have the most economical engine on the grid, which allows them to run lighter fuel loads and a much lighter, faster and nimbler car.

Errh... they also run lighter because they have a much smaller KERS unit than other front-runners, but until the FIA allow unlimited KERS use per lap, there's no reason for the teams to run anything bigger.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-13-2012, 10:30 PM   #17 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by niky View Post
As regards the title... DRS didn't give Hamilton that win. Good driving and excellent tire preservation did. All it did, really, was enable him to pass Fernando Alonso a bit more easily... as Alonso's car didn't have the grip (cold tires) or pace to keep the McLaren at bay.
Actually you've got that backwards. Hamilton completely disregarded his tires and put in as many "qualifying" laps as he could to open up a big enough gap so he could pit for fresh tires. That put him only a few seconds down from Vettal and Alonso. Alonso was running on old tires and just didn't have to grip to hold off the charging cars behind him.

Andy,
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 12:06 AM   #18 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Philippines
Posts: 2,173
Thanks: 1,739
Thanked 589 Times in 401 Posts
Hamilton had to push hard, but he managed to make the tires last on a McLaren that isn't known for tire conservation. His first stint saw him put in the best performance of the top three, as he undercut Vettel and outperformed Alonso, who stayed out longer but couldn't quite build a cushion because he didn't have enough tire left at the end of it.

In the second stint, Alonso and Vettel were banking on the higher rates of wear on the McLaren to undercut him, but Lewis had managed to build up enough of a gap at the start of the stint to keep them at bay... that, along with the frantic calls from the pit about matching his target times managed to keep him out long enough to force the other two to gamble (foolishly) on one-stoppers.

Most people peg Hammy as being really harsh on tires... and for the most part that's true... but he has shown the ability to eke out whatever life is possible from tires (when needed) on a McLaren that seems content to shred them at earliest opportunity. Witness the "tire master", Button ending up on a three-stopper due to extreme rates of wear... Hamilton has always been more adept at driving a difficult car than Button, and that trend continues now...

-

That said... greenest drive of the race has to go to Sergio Perez. Wasted the least amount of time idling in the pits, and drove from 15th to 3rd on a one-stop strategy and just two sets of tires.

Last edited by niky; 06-14-2012 at 12:19 AM..
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 02:05 AM   #19 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
mechman600's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Langley, BC
Posts: 1,228

Fusion - '16 Ford Fusion Hybrid SE
Thanks: 190
Thanked 275 Times in 168 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by niky View Post
Hopefully, they'll pair them with even bigger KERS batteries to keep single-lap pace similar.
In 2014 KERS will have double the output - 160 HP. Not sure about battery pack sizing.

A typical KERS system weighs about 35 kg. Makes you wonder why the aftermarket hasn't made a similar add on hybrid system for the cars of us mere mortals.
  Reply With Quote
Old 06-14-2012, 02:08 AM   #20 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
euromodder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Belgium
Posts: 4,683

The SCUD - '15 Fiat Scudo L2
Thanks: 178
Thanked 652 Times in 516 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by niky View Post
A lot of the variability this season comes from the fact that the current tires are "fragile"... in other words, they grain easily, flat-spot easily and lose grip easily.
It used to be that racing stimulated technological progress, with some useful spin-offs into the real world .
F1 seems bend on reversing that concept.

Michelin had tyres ready that'd last an entire GP.
F1 decided on mandatory tyre swaps, then picked Pirelli as a supplier - a company known for excessive tyre wear.

__________________
Strayed to the Dark Diesel Side

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com