ten percent water in one liter of petrol?

[jarre]

Dear Hypermilers
I came across an interesting story about somebody who has created a way to put water directly into fuel [10%water1liter petrol] and according to the story the car really started to kick a**.The guy who told me this story is a high official here and he would not lie,what had the official intrigued was the fuel was milky in color after the water was added but the person who brought the idea did not tell the official how the two were able to mix,any idea guys?
jarre
the official told me that he tried the mixed fuel on his car and was really impressed.

[jamesqf]

[QUOTE=jarre;137946The guy who told me this story is a high official here and he would not lie...[/QUOTE]

My gawd, are you ever naive :-)

[Christ]

Ok, so there have been cases where people have homogenously mixed water and oil-based fuels. It's called emulsification. I have a diesel handbook from Adele's (sp?) that shows that some low-speed diesel engines have been run on up to 25% water in emulsion with low-grade diesel oils, and those engines displayed cooler running temperatures and similar power with less fuel consumption. Keep in mind that low-speed diesel engines typically don't exceed 200 RPM.

[Christ]

References to the subject:
Influence of Water-Diesel Fuel Emulsions and Egr on Combustion and Exhaust Emissions of Heavy-Duty, Di-Diesel Engines Equipped With Common-Rail Injection System

Emulsion diesel fuel composition with reduced emissions - Patent 5669938

Green Car Congress: Kanagawa University Develops New Diesel Emulsion Fuel

http://www.epa.gov/OMS/models/analys...n/emulbibl.pdf

IRS information on W/D emulsions:

Diesel-Water Fuel Emulsion

Diesel-water fuel emulsion means diesel fuel at least 14% of which is water and for which the emulsion additive is registered by a United States manufacturer with the EPA under section 211 of the Clean Air Act as in effect on March 31, 2003.

A reduced tax rate of $.198 per gallon is imposed on a diesel-water fuel emulsion. To be eligible for the reduced rate, the person who sells, removes, or uses the diesel-water fuel emulsion must be registered by the IRS. If the diesel-water fuel emulsion does not meet the requirements above, or if the person who sells, removes, or uses the fuel is not registered, the diesel-water fuel emulsion is taxed at $.244 per gallon.
Credits or refunds. The allowance for a credit or refund on a diesel-water fuel emulsion is discussed in chapter 2.

[Peter7307]

WDE (Water Diesel Emulsion) is used in some marine and stationery diesel application like power generation and diesel furl powered water heaters and central heating furnace units.

The rate is generally around 13 / 15% water.

Not all that familiar with it myself but I am interested to find out more.

Finally Welcome to jarre.
Enjoy your stay.

Cheers , Pete.

[rmay635703]

Actually emulsification is a VERY old thing the government wanted to reduce pollution in the 70's using it in buses but decided against in short order.

Currently microbubble tech (the korean guys selling CNT FLA batteries) are trying to sell large scale systems for emulsifying diesel, fuel oil, kerosene and oil using stabizers to use as road fuel.

Too bad there isn't a diy emulsifier, it appears the cost per gallon is decreased and up to 40% water can be used in diesel, its stable for months, while maintaining moderately similar performance out of over the road motors, not low speed rigs. At least that is the claim.

Would be interesting to try in an old non-turbo rig.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

Actually emulsification is a VERY old thing the government wanted to reduce pollution in the 70's using it in buses but decided against in short order.

Currently microbubble tech (the korean guys selling CNT FLA batteries) are trying to sell large scale systems for emulsifying diesel, fuel oil, kerosene and oil using stabizers to use as road fuel.

Too bad there isn't a diy emulsifier, it appears the cost per gallon is decreased and up to 40% water can be used in diesel, its stable for months, while maintaining moderately similar performance out of over the road motors, not low speed rigs. At least that is the claim.

Would be interesting to try in an old non-turbo rig.

Interesting indeed.

Apparently, just the action of churning and heating diesel and water at the same time can cause emulsion.

Hydraulic pumps are famous for it, (Turning the hydraulic fluid creamy white) and mixing some methanol in makes it more hygroscopic, IIRC.

[jamesqf]

Or if you've ever had a cylinder head crack, so that coolant mixes in with the oil while the engine's running. Turns into this creamy gunk, which doesn't separate out again. I kept a bottle of it around for years, just to see if it would...

BTW, the naivity I meant wasn't about the diesel-water emulsion, but the idea that a high official wouldn't lie.

[Christ]

Originally Posted by jamesqf

Or if you've ever had a cylinder head crack, so that coolant mixes in with the oil while the engine's running. Turns into this creamy gunk, which doesn't separate out again. I kept a bottle of it around for years, just to see if it would...

BTW, the naivity I meant wasn't about the diesel-water emulsion, but the idea that a high official wouldn't lie.

I caught that. Thanks for being clear, though.

So that coolant/oil mix never separated? Interesting...

I know that high temps and churning will emulsify oils pretty well with water... I see it happen all the time in log splitters and such that sit for the Summer, then suddenly get used for short stints in the Autumn. The hydraulic fluid is hygroscopic, and attracts moisture like crazy... the water will sit in the bottom of the reservoir, though (some is absorbed, but most of it separates into water vapor with heat, then drips into the reservoir and settles at the bottom.) Most people don't drain/check their hydraulic fluid before using the equipment, and the end result is a creamy water-infused mess that usually leaks past seals and requires a full cleaning/flush and refill.

I haven't found a good way to un-emulsify the water from the fluid, else I'd be reusing the old fluid instead of taking it in for recycling.

[Coyote X]

Even gasoline cars can get better mileage with water in an emulsion

Run Your Car on Water!!! (emulsion that is)

That thread never seemed to go anywhere so maybe this one will figure out an easy way to do it. I have so much crap to do that I have never managed to get around to testing stuff. Or even work on my car for that matter