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Old 08-09-2017, 01:46 AM   #151 (permalink)
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Up the Willamette?
Without giving too much away, it may or may not be the McKenzie.

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You seem to be an odd combination of both embracing of new technology, yet content with the simpler things like VW beetles.
I grew up around Mennonites. Closely related to the Amish; who, if they allow cars at all, prefer them 'murdered out, yo'.

roflwaffle — EVTV have the North American distribution of Quaife differential for the Tesla drivetrain. They're needed to eliminate the wheel sensors in a conversion, like their Vanagon double-cab.

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Old 08-09-2017, 03:51 PM   #152 (permalink)
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That said, I'm willing to suffer the inconvenience of less precise button pushing and tactile feedback for the sake of reduced cost and infinitely variable function placement.
Reduced cost? I don't know about that. Sure, it's cheap to draw icons on a screen, but you have to connect those icons to electromechanical actuators somehow. So for an example, is it cheaper to roll down your window with a screen icon, a switch by the window, or a handle?

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If modern cars had buttons for every function instead of touch screens, they would begin to resemble an airplane cockpit.
What's wrong with an airplane cockpit? My Cherokee's cockpit isn't all that complex - a couple of extra instruments and a navcomm, sure, but no shift lever, no turn signals, no windshield wiper...

You also need to ask how many of those functions of modern cars need to be acessible (or even should be accessible) while driving. Sure, an LCD display for diagnostics &c would be a fine thing (which could be done perfectly well with a laptop or tablet), but it should hide out of sight while the driver concentrates on driving.
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Old 08-09-2017, 04:58 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by jamesqf View Post
Reduced cost? I don't know about that. Sure, it's cheap to draw icons on a screen, but you have to connect those icons to electromechanical actuators somehow. So for an example, is it cheaper to roll down your window with a screen icon, a switch by the window, or a handle?

You also need to ask how many of those functions of modern cars need to be acessible (or even should be accessible) while driving. Sure, an LCD display for diagnostics &c would be a fine thing (which could be done perfectly well with a laptop or tablet), but it should hide out of sight while the driver concentrates on driving.
It's likely cheaper for a car loaded with features to be touch-screen controlled vs mechanical switch. Take HVAC for instance. If the car has temperature control, then it's cheaper use the display to set the temperature than to have separate buttons and LCD display. As far as windows; it's probably cheaper to control by screen since transistors are cheaper than mechanical switches. Nobody uses manual cranks anymore, so that's a moot point. Every car I've had with manual windows has had at least 1 issue, either with the crank stripping, popping off, or the window falling. I've never had a single issue with automatic windows.

There are trade-offs by having most everything be controlled and displayed on a single screen, but the benefits likely outweigh the drawbacks. Besides, the vision of the Tesla is not to drive the vehicle, but to be a passenger. Perhaps the display is a bit premature, but not by much.

As an aside, the only manual control I prefer are seats. Waiting for motors to slowly wind a seat into position is frustrating. When I want the seat back, I want it back now, not 1 minute from now.

Finally, the type of people who buy a Tesla are the type that like automated design. People that want manual everything buy a 1969 Beetle.
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Old 08-09-2017, 05:28 PM   #154 (permalink)
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I bet that one can simply tell the Model 3 to open or close the windows, no?
Or program a whole array of settings to invoke at command: vents off, windows down, sun visors down, seats reclining, Pet Sounds on the stereo: e.g. "beach mode"
System versus object thinking.

I held a broken window crank more than once. Power window buttons do fail too.
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Old 08-10-2017, 10:17 AM   #155 (permalink)
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The biggest downside of the touchscreen for everything, is they need motors for things like directing the air flow at the vents. But for things like the side view mirrors, which already have this on many cars, it has worked fine.
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Old 08-10-2017, 01:03 PM   #156 (permalink)
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If the car has temperature control, then it's cheaper use the display to set the temperature than to have separate buttons and LCD display.
But why do you need an LCD display for temperature? You simply adjust heater/defroster levers to "comfortable" and "I can see out". Comfortable is not going to be one fixed temperature.

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I've never had a single issue with automatic windows.
I have one quite frequently. If it starts to rain (granted, not something that happens that often where I live), I have to hunt around for the keys before I can roll up the windows.

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Finally, the type of people who buy a Tesla are the type that like automated design.
Which means they're deliberately choosing to limit their market. Fine for the sort of people who like that sort of thing, but unless they change, they'll always be a niche player.
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Old 08-10-2017, 03:05 PM   #157 (permalink)
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But why do you need an LCD display for temperature? You simply adjust heater/defroster levers to "comfortable" and "I can see out". Comfortable is not going to be one fixed temperature.
My son's Charger SRT-8 has infrared sensors that monitor the occupants of the front seats so it adjusts their zones appropriately.
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:04 PM   #158 (permalink)
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To me, the best location for EV plug stations would be at hotels/motels along interstate freeways, since long-distance traveling is the EV's "Achilles heel." Around town, most people recharge overnight at their homes.


ADDENDUM - other good candidates would also be freeway-adjacent restaurants and diners...but probably NOT fast-food joints (wink,wink)
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Old 08-10-2017, 05:53 PM   #159 (permalink)
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To me, the best location for EV plug stations would be at hotels/motels along interstate freeways, since long-distance traveling is the EV's "Achilles heel." Around town, most people recharge overnight at their homes.
Exactly. Nobody considers 30+ minutes to be a "quick" charge, especially when that only gets you another 100 miles or so.

Eliminating even 1 of these quick charge stops by plugging in at the hotel and getting a full charge makes for a much more pleasant experience.
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Old 08-11-2017, 02:54 AM   #160 (permalink)
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It all depends on your needs.

The longest trip I took in the last 5 years was 400 km (250 miles) one way, twice.
Still needed to rest and eat along the way.

130 km (80 miles) trips are frequent though. A 300 km range should suit me fine for that. Wouldn't even need to charge at my destination.

The charger network over here is dense, so one could pretty much chance it on range and just take a 10 minute charge somewhere when it runs short.

Anyway, the road agency's advice over here is to rest for half an hour after every 2 hours of driving. Following that advice, anything with a range over 2 hours worth and a quick charge option would suffice.

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