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Old 03-26-2018, 03:48 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Total Power efficiency between a Hybrid and EV? Who wins?

If you've considered the entire circuit for which energy made it to your gas tank or battery which would be more efficient in my home state of good ole ARkansas? EV or Hybrid? Imagine if energy was charged in price by how efficiently it was utilized at its final destination vs its total exergy available at its source of production.
To the numbers:
For Arkansas power production goes:
Coal: 44% of production @ 38.5% thermal efficiency. (local plants efficiency)
Natty: 26% of production @ 55% thermal efficiency. (averaged number for ngcc )
Nuclear: 24% of production @ 30% thermal efficiency.
Hydro: 3% of production @ 90% efficiency.
Total production efficiency average for Arkansas: 41.14%
Power Grid efficiency: ~92%.
Power to the source: 37.8488%
EV Charging efficiency: 85% (avg between long period charging in hot and cold weather and 120v and 240v charging)
Power efficiency to the battery: 32.17148%
Kwh/mi: 0.28kWh (using 2018 Bolt EV numbers).
Meaning It took around 740Wh to move the EV one mile including efficiency losses of power production.

Now onto the Gasoline car:
Efficiency of factory Supply Electricity: 37.8488% (from above)
Refining gallon of gas: 88.1% efficiency (4kWh = 10.568 kWh at source needed to produce a gallon at the EPA's number of 33.7 kWh in a gallon of gasoline).
Transport: 80,000 pound tanker (11,000 gallons of gas at 6.21lb/gal) ~ 6mpg typically 100 miles (diesel ~ 37.95 kWh/gal) = 16 2/3 gallons of diesel. = 632.5kWh used. Also a full load was considered 11,000 gallons.
Math to get your gallon to the pump: 11,000 gallons produced: 116,248kWh used for production + 632.5kWh for transport.
Production Energy per gallon: 10.6255kWh/ gallon. = 68.47% total efficiency of production.
2018 Ioniq EPA 58mpg: 581kWh per mile.
So that means it takes 848.6 Wh of energy production to move your Ioniq one mile on average.

So the bummer is all the taxes and transportation fees on the gallon of gas, but it looks like the EV is about 14.7% more efficient to drive. A far cry from the "EVs are free" picture the world is trying to paint. An upside though is our area has little to none free charging, but the cost per mile is pretty nice on EVs. Green thumb wise if you are that guy it looks like for my area to break even with the EV you only need to average 67 mpg! lol Still very impressive considering the average mode of fossil fuel transportation not being very efficient
If it wasn't so politically uncorrect to burn gasoline and people realized that most areas are entirely coal or nuclear powered it would probably be a different picture on the subject right now, but its interesting to see in my home state with our abundance of Natty gas and its inherent efficiency of production.
Mazda is the first of the big manufacturers to decide to lower its energy use per mile by creating a more thermally efficient power plant forgoing electrics so it will be interesting to see how the world shapes up in the next five years.
As always if you see any mistakes or have any gripes leave some comments below.

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Old 03-26-2018, 03:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayden55 View Post
So that means it takes 848.6 kWh of energy production to move your Ioniq one mile on average.
Wow, almost a megawatt hour for 1 mile??? That thing must have some amazing batteries .

Joking aside, a nice cradle to grave comparison of CO2 released vs the power mix in different regions is here:
Electric vehicles beat gasoline cars in cradle-to-grave emissions study

So, whatever gas mileage you would have to achieve in a gas or non-plugin hybrid car to equal an electric car in GG emissions, broken down by region.

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Old 03-26-2018, 04:00 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by samwichse View Post
Wow, almost a megawatt hour for 1 mile??? That thing must have some amazing batteries .

Joking aside, a nice cradle to grave comparison of CO2 released vs the power mix in different regions is here:
Really trying to tell people that gasoline is the devil here. (fixed lol)
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Old 03-26-2018, 04:04 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hayden55 View Post
.... It took around 740Wh to move the EV one mile including efficiency losses of power production.

Now onto the Gasoline car:
...
2018 Ioniq EPA 58mpg: 581kWh per mile.
So that means it takes 848.6 kWh of energy production to move your Ioniq one mile on average.
In that case the EV would be more than a thousand times as efficient !
Guess the k has to go?

Only part of the crude oil makes it to gasoline, the rest ends up as gas, diesel, kerosene, tar etc. The oil itself may vary from sweet to tarlike. This makes it impossible to set a number on refinement efficiency. I read about losses up to 50%, so 88% efficiency seems a bit optimistic.
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Old 03-26-2018, 04:11 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I read about losses up to 50%, so 88% efficiency seems a bit optimistic.
Anybody have anymore info on what percent of product is lost when generating pretroleum products from crude oil?
Also I wonder what the effects of that would be since both sides for the most part take power to produce their fuel source before power production and we are n't counting that on either side but just from the power plant, to transport, to the tank?
So I guess I mean to say they would be off to around the same percent for each?
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Interesting that in the "good" regions, all it takes is a Fusion hybrid or better to be more efficient burning gasoline than electrons.
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Old 03-26-2018, 05:47 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Interesting that in the "good" regions, all it takes is a Fusion hybrid or better to be more efficient burning gasoline than electrons.
Lol never mind, it's in the key
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Old 03-27-2018, 03:33 AM   #8 (permalink)
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If I had an EV the first thing I'd do is order a home PV installation.
Not only for bragging rights ('my car does not burn coal') but also because the extra current draw would allow for a bigger, more cost efficient installation with an ROI in the crazy if you don't zone.

As for now a small PV installation's ROI is still over 10 years for my non-ideally placed house at 52 latitude and there is a mortgage and financial risks to take into account so I don't dare bite the bullet yet.
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Old 03-27-2018, 04:33 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm at 45 degrees lat, and in a rainy valley. No sense putting up solar here where electricity is $0.08/kWh from mostly hydro. When I buy property, I'd like to find something that can support micro-hydro generation.
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Old 03-27-2018, 09:15 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Any EV is more expensive per mile than my Insight, with gas and electricity prices what they are here.

That is, until I start needing major maintenance.

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