Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Hybrids
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 03-22-2017, 11:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
EcoModding Wannabe
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 34

Hype-brid - '10 Toyota Auris HSD T-Spirit
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Question Toyota HSD Batteries

Hi, daft question...

According to the link below there are different capacity batteries in the various HSD systems;

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_Synergy_Drive

Does anyone know if the batteries are interchangeable? Can a larger capacity battery from an RX450H be used to replace a Prius/Auris battery?

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 03-22-2017, 12:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 10,224

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 39.62 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's 04 Civic - '04 Honda Civic DX
90 day: 44.13 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,744
Thanked 1,981 Times in 1,210 Posts
If the pack is the same voltage, I'd say most likely yes. However, that really doesn't guarantee you'll get any better fuel economy. If you're fully discharging and fully charging your pack on a normal basis I'd say it could increase fuel economy, but otherwise I'd say its more weight for no gain. It'll also be larger and not fit properly which I assume you already know.
__________________
Current project: Heating the manual trans with engine coolant
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 12:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
vskid3's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Utah
Posts: 821

Civic DX (sold) - '97 Honda Civic DX
90 day: 34.15 mpg (US)

GTO (sold) - '04 Pontiac GTO
90 day: 22.62 mpg (US)

Green Brick (sold) - '06 Ford Escape Hybrid
90 day: 31.93 mpg (US)
Thanks: 143
Thanked 216 Times in 160 Posts
The Prius is pretty picky about messing with the battery. If you're very lucky, everything will plug right in and the car will recognize the extra capacity. Look at aftermarket/DIY plug-in setups if you want to see how much "fun" it'll be if it doesn't work out like that. Plus when you're done, you might not even see any fuel economy increase unless you live in a hilly area or are otherwise regularly filling the existing battery using regen.
__________________
Current cars:

Prius Thread

Volt Thread


E-Bike Thread
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 12:54 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Ecky's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Vermont
Posts: 1,947

Gaptooth - '00 Honda Insight
Team Honda
Gen-1 Insights
90 day: 69.77 mpg (US)

Work Van - '16 Chevy Express 2500
90 day: 17.37 mpg (US)
Thanks: 616
Thanked 702 Times in 452 Posts
My guess is that even if it plugs in and functions, the extra capacity will not be recognized or usable.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to Ecky For This Useful Post:
roflwaffle (03-25-2017)
Old 03-22-2017, 04:13 PM   #5 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
LittleBlackDuck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: The Land Downunder
Posts: 228

CT - '11 Lexus CT200h Luxury
Thanks: 26
Thanked 78 Times in 59 Posts
RX450h battery is totally different layout - it lives under the rear seats.

Simon
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-22-2017, 08:17 PM   #6 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ area
Posts: 141
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 40 Posts
No HSD pack is compatible outside similar models (e.g., Toyota Highlander/Lexus RX450h) with another when looked at as a whole. Those of different capacities are never compatible.

The internals of just about everything are compatible, i.e., the 6 cell modules are compatible.

The Highlander/RX450h are unique in that they use an 8 cell module.

The battery management requirements of packs absolutely prevent one from interchanging them.

It's also a moot point. There would be zero gains and likely a very small loss associated with increasing the weight of the vehicle.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 06:19 AM   #7 (permalink)
EcoModding Wannabe
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: London, UK
Posts: 34

Hype-brid - '10 Toyota Auris HSD T-Spirit
Thanks: 1
Thanked 4 Times in 4 Posts
Thanks for all the replies. I guessed it would probably not be as simple swap, but doesn't hurt to ask (most of the time).

I am confused by the statements that there would be zero gains and no economy improvements. I understand that there would be a weight penalty, but it would surely be less than adding a passenger to the car.

My daily drive has a mix of urban and motorway (highway) driving, and so the battery is frequently charged to max (80ish %). The battery capacity currently isn't sufficient to complete all of my town driving, so I assumed that a larger capacity would help this part of the journey.

Again - thanks for the responses.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 09:16 AM   #8 (permalink)
Focused on MPG
 
ECO-AKJ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Uphill from the river!
Posts: 322

White Lightning - '05 FORD FOCUS SE ZX4
Team Ford
90 day: 34.77 mpg (US)

Wife's Speedy - '06 Mercury Mariner Premier V6
90 day: 21.62 mpg (US)
Thanks: 69
Thanked 69 Times in 57 Posts
Hybrid Batteries

Too bad a person couldn't put a couple batteries together in parallel for the HSD
__________________





Staying Focus'd on MPG
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 09:17 AM   #9 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ area
Posts: 141
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 40 Posts
You are confused because you haven't embraced the reality that 100% of the propulsive energy used by the car ultimately comes from gasoline. The battery needs to be just large enough to allow the hybrid system to work. Excess capacity is wasted. Additional electricity use necessitates replenishment with gas power.

You further likely don't realize that the amount of energy stored in any of those batteries listed is TINY... about 1-2 miles of SLOW pure EV driving. The Gen2/3 Prius pack usable capacity is almost identical to the total capacity of the tiny lead acid battery in back.

Lastly, passengers can get in an out of cars. Increasing the car's weight permanently by 40# will have a measurable negative impact.

Case in point:

Gen1 vs. Gen2 Prius

Gen1 capacity: 1.8kWh
Gen2 capacity: 1.3kWh

They deliberately downsized it because they realized it was too big and heavy - overkill for the application. The underlying HSD components are nearly identical. Most of the gains came from the aerodynamic improvements.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2017, 09:21 AM   #10 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Phoenix, AZ area
Posts: 141
Thanks: 0
Thanked 52 Times in 40 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FordMan View Post
Too bad a person couldn't put a couple batteries together in parallel for the HSD
That would actually be a MUCH easier solution; however, putting NiMH in parallel can have catastrophic results should any of the cells wander outside the normal operating range, but again, there would be no measurable benefit and likely a penalty associated with the permanent weight increase.

Now is a good time to mention that anyone deliberately trying to extend EV mode of any hybrid through driving style is likely hurting their mileage (excess battery usage must be replaced by additional gas engine running) and hastening their battery demise due to deeper charge/discharge cycles.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com