turning momentum - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum

talldudenumber5 · 05-06-2010, 10:58 AM

i was thinking the other day that that we talk about pulse and glide but what about carrying momentum through turns. nascar uses the slingshot technique to throw the car through the turn to carry speed out. so would it be conducive to add parts to the car to increase handling so you could carry more speed through a sharper turn so that you do not have to accelerate as much once you turn. i added a strut bar and tightened the suspension and i am considering stiffer shock. is this a lagit idea or do i just miss my fast drive teen years

PaleMelanesian · 05-06-2010, 11:49 AM

The less you need to brake for a corner the better. One way to achieve it is what you just described. That way is more fun.

The other way is to start coasting sooner, for a slower cornering speed. That's what I choose because it's free and probably safer.

ncs · 05-06-2010, 11:51 AM

Right idea, but just remember most suspension mods wont pay for themselves. If you weren't already losing traction through the corners, a better suspension wont help.

Also, look through the corners. If you don't, you will be surprised by something/someone.

I'm running a ton of suspension mods because it feels better, but I still can't keep up with unmodified cars with better drivers.

bgd73 · 05-06-2010, 12:50 PM

adding for momentum is a winner. Not about missing teen speeding years.. tractor trailers still do it. same mileage at 40 tons and empty.

My greatest ecomod is bigger wheels, heavier.. and higher rated stiff tires...and alot of freakin welding (over 100 pounds added- and more to go)

I call the other direction of losing weight "the little inline four fairy tale". the delusion that you may get torque out of it one day starts with losing pounds, like a crack addict...and it keeps on going until death.

I may have an extreme here.. my old sube is 33.1 pounds per horspeower by oem standards, I am closer to 35 in reality...would not change it for anything...funny enough, I am out in the fast lane more than ever.

it is a good mentality to catch on to the momentum stuff, even aero conversations and chores start to go away.

comptiger5000 · 05-06-2010, 04:07 PM

Being able to drive fast in the turns is more driver skill than the vehicle. At normal road speeds, most modern cars will corner just fine, if driven well.

Being that I spend plenty of time on backroads, and typically drive reasonably quickly on them (to minimize having to gas the Jeep up short hills, etc), I get plenty of practice in making it handle well on them. I laugh when I get stuck behind the slow guy in a BMW or other sports car, or when they're behind me and I'm pulling away. Especially when they slam the brakes and crawl around a corner that I take at 30 in a total brick on wheels, knowing that I wasted less gas on the corner than they did

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Red Lion · 05-06-2010, 06:07 PM

1) As stated, suspension mods won't really pay for themselves in MPG savings. Do it for fun! Cornering fast is a lot of fun, but be safe!

2) The best way to go through a corner faster (besides driver skill) is higher grip tires, most of which aren't low rolling resistance (at least the type of tires I consider high cornering grip). Kind of negates the MPG. Lowering springs (with some performance struts) would be good since they'll also help lower your frontal area on the highway, but again, they won't pay for themselves in MPG savings.

3) Situations vary, of course, but if you need to brake for a corner, aren't you going too fast to begin with (from a fuel economy view point)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bgd73

My greatest ecomod is bigger wheels, heavier.. and higher rated stiff tires...and alot of freakin welding (over 100 pounds added- and more to go)

I call the other direction of losing weight "the little inline four fairy tale". the delusion that you may get torque out of it one day starts with losing pounds, like a crack addict...and it keeps on going until death.

I may have an extreme here.. my old sube is 33.1 pounds per horspeower by oem standards, I am closer to 35 in reality...would not change it for anything...funny enough, I am out in the fast lane more than ever.

it is a good mentality to catch on to the momentum stuff, even aero conversations and chores start to go away.

You lost me there bud.

I'm all for welding the chassis (which is what I'll presume you were talking about when you said welding). Having a super-rigid chassis is great for cornering speeds and handling, but don't make it sound like it's silly for small, lightweight cars to try to get lighter. There's just some things a heavier car can't outdo a lighter car at, no matter how rigid the chassis, how wide and grippy the tires or how high the horsepower. If I misread what you were getting at, I'm sorry, that's just how it sounded to me.

Grant-53 · 05-06-2010, 08:34 PM

I've driven everything from a Cadillac hearse to a Geo Prism. Physics have stayed the same. Weight reduces MPG. Lighter wheels make for more MPG. I agree that a larger diameter anti-roll bar would improve cornering. Coast into a turn and gently accelerate out of it. Imagine a ballon under your foot. I went to the next size wider and lower profile tire on an aluminum rim for more control. The wheels from my old "88 Escort GT fit my '95 Geo Prism. Stiffer springs and shocks are not usually needed but look at upgrading suspension bushings. A good front air dam will reduce understeer as well as drag.

Weight is only one factor crash safety. More important are chassis geometry and material strength. That is why a carbon fiber monocoque F1 car can hit a barrier at 140 mph and the driver survive. Hitting the same barrier at 40 mph with a 1/2 ton pickup truck could be just as hazardous to your health.

ShadeTreeMech · 05-06-2010, 09:34 PM

To misquote a car commercial, "lighter is better"

My Maxima SE outcorners anything I've ever driven, but the difference was the tires. When I got the car the tires were pretty badly worn out, and while trying to take a corner quickly I about had a spill.

Next day, same corner, same car, same conditions, but with high quality rubber on, you'd have thought I was cornering on rails. It made a HUGE difference. So instead of spending money on suspension components, I'd tell your tire guy to fit the highest quality tires he has on your car and feel the difference. To help equalize the increase in rolling resistance you might get compared to narrower tires, inflate to 50 psi.

The tires I have on my Maxima are HUGELY wide. They're the stock recommended size, but so wide the sidewalls overlap past the rims. there's about 1/8" rubber protecting my rims from the curb, and I also get that extra 1/4" rubber on the tread. It only cost me about $110 per corner, but they should last me 2 years.

Thymeclock · 05-06-2010, 09:48 PM

Save vs. spend:

In cornering fast, you probably find doing it fun (as long as you do it safely and know your limits.)

The amount of gas you save will be negligible. You might save a tiny amount of time in reaching your destination faster, but that too is negligible.

The downside is in increased wear to your tires and suspension. It will more than offset the amount of $$$ you think you might be saving in fuel consumption.

There is a price we pay in everything we do.

ShadeTreeMech · 05-06-2010, 10:13 PM

I agree that it is hard on the suspension to go fast around a corner. And it does wear down the tires faster. BUT it is a lot of fun seeing just how fast you dare go around a posted 35 mph curve. My wife managed to hold onto a 35 mph curve going 55. (yes, the limit was 55) While it may have worn the tires a bit, compressed the bushings more than ever, and likely burned more fuel, it was exhilerating, fun and LEGAL.

Adding a front spoiler would help a bit i think. But the effect it would have on the mpg would likely be disasterous