Using vapors from gas already going to carb?

[Old Mechanic]

Originally Posted by villain.ind

"thanked," that solves my problem completely!

the problem with plumbing the vapor directly into the engine is that it is isnt metered. the engine would run rich. unless it isnt enough to make a difference, in which would make this mod useless.

The modern feed back systems would prevent rich operation as long as the additional fuel supplied did not exceed the available oxygen. Not sure about a potential Check Engine Light situation if the system detected something it could not handle, but the O2 sensor is the final control of overall mixture control. Running rich would require a non functional O2 sensor (already a CEL) or the fuel management systems lack of compensational range to reduce the gasoline delivery to compensate for the volume of alternative fuel delivered.

Can you say Natural Gas-Gasoline powered car?

Some Propane or Natural Gas added to the system should work, as long as it is done properly.

regards
Mech

[jakobnev]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

As far as a home brewed Direct Injection system, that's a serious stretch, since most DI systems have engines using higher compression to utilize the advantages of DI as far as the direct cooling of the combustion chamber by the fuel injected directly into the combustion chamber itself.

While true, the art or modifying CR isn't exactly in need of new research.

[Old Mechanic]

Suggesting that the average ecomodder would be capable of "modifying the compression ratio" then adding a means of direct injection of fuel into the combustion chamber, which would require some serious engineering and an additional passageway in the cylinder head, is far beyond anyone outside of a considerably competent machine shop and engineering expertise, that to this point has evaded the ability of many new car manufacturers.

That being said, it may actually come to a point where the existing spark plug hole could be used if a combination direct injector and spark plug mechanism could be designed and produced.

Maybe something along this line.

transonic combustion - Google Search

regards
Mech

[jakobnev]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

Suggesting that the average ecomodder would be capable of "modifying the compression ratio" then adding a means of direct injection of fuel into the combustion chamber, which would require some serious engineering and an additional passageway in the cylinder head, is far beyond anyone outside of a considerably competent machine shop and engineering expertise, that to this point has evaded the ability of many new car manufacturers.

Stop lumping those two together, it's not like it's more difficult to make toast after making a cup of coffee. And yes, if someone went ahead and designed a good enough solution many could do it. (average might be a bit of a stretch tho.) Take the MPGuino as an example, many people are able to build them from plans, but not as many would be able to design them from scratch.

That being said, it may actually come to a point where the existing spark plug hole could be used if a combination direct injector and spark plug mechanism could be designed and produced.

Yes, yes! And someone could make such plugjectors and sell them to people who don't have the skills and/or equipment to make them themselves - just like high-comp pistons are sold today.

[pjbgravely]

It is funny how backwards the automotive industry has always been. Direct injection in a gasoline engine was used by Messerschmitt in WWII and is probably a lot older than that.
Fuel injection, the super charger, hemi head, and multiple valves per cylinder were all invented just after the turn of the 20th century.
Air bags were invented in the 60's and were finally put in most cars in the 90's.

[Old Mechanic]

Originally Posted by jakobnev

Stop lumping those two together, it's not like it's more difficult to make toast after making a cup of coffee. And yes, if someone went ahead and designed a good enough solution many could do it. (average might be a bit of a stretch tho.) Take the MPGuino as an example, many people are able to build them from plans, but not as many would be able to design them from scratch.

Actually increased compression and direct injection work together to produce more power and better efficiency. Why not "lump them together".



Yes, yes! And someone could make such plugjectors and sell them to people who don't have the skills and/or equipment to make them themselves - just like high-comp pistons are sold today.

Possibly, but just adding direct injection without looking at the characteristics of the combustion chamber design, flame front propagation, as well as other aspects of the situation will probably not produce the best results and could produce nothing. It needs a systematic approach. If just slapping a set of different injectors in an engine would make a dramatic difference it would have already been done.

Way beyond the average tinkerer.

regards
Mech