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Old 05-30-2017, 08:59 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Except for the interstate most of us travel at 55 mph or the posted limit. Interstate travel is posted at 65 or 70 mph in most states. Just because some folks think highways are race tracks doesn't mean we have to follow suit. Yes, I understand the 80% rule of traffic and if things are too hairy I select an alternate route. I just had a conversation with a young man who is slowly recovering from a 130 mph motorcycle crash in Florida. With any group ride safety is paramount.
The record of 472 mpg was set at Laguna Seca by a Japanese rider in a full shell 125cc Honda. Actual riding conditions will vary so it is important to qualify city cycles and highway speed to understand the efficiency of the rider/ bike combination.

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Old 05-31-2017, 08:33 AM   #12 (permalink)
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During the past year, I had done some thinking as to the best way for me to put a home made tail on my bike to help streamline it somewhat and to make it very useful. I'd lke to end up with something useful and easy, along the lines of what Sendler has had the last couple years in the Vetter Challenges with the tail he's had on his, and I'm pretty sure the best thing I'd like to do is have an entire new seat custom made wherein only the front half of the seat would be for a rider; and the back half would contain the tail sort of built on to the seat body itself, and it would taper and cut off short of a full streamline point, fooling the air (like Sendlers), at the proper angle and length as a ratio to my total bike length.

Instead of the current key unlock to take the entire seat off as it is now, it would have maybe a push button (or similar) unlock that would be inside the built-on tail in kind of a indented area so as to prevent accidental unlatching. The advantage of such a system would be that I could remove and reestablish the stock seat quickly and easily, thereby not having my bike permanently customized in a way that no one else would ever want it. Also, if I ever wanted or needed to switch it back from a solo rider, to a two-up rider bike; or needed to carry a different kind of payload that needed to be strapped on or something, I could switch back to stock via the entire seat. It would have the advantage too that I wouldn't have to put an extra tie towards the back as I do now with a large tote, crate or box; due to the fact that the straps still leave it not quite as sturdy as I like it, but if it were built on to the seat, it'd need no straps or ties.

It looks like, however, I'll be showing up with a milk crate strapped to my stock seat, because I just couldn't find the time and resources to take on such an endeavor. Alternatively, I could show up with a large Rubbermaid tote that would meet the grocery bag requirement; firm up the bottom somewhat or use a piece of plywood for a bottom; cut slits in the bottom of it and lash-strap it around my seat; it would give me a box similar to what some of the electric bikes have in so far as it's appearance on the bike, but the problem would be that it would be wider than my upper body and the front 1/2 of my bike and would likely induce more drag than my stock bike without anything, whereas a more narrow box, tote or crate seems to have no effect one way or the other. So what I really need, if I were going to just place a store bought box or tote on my seat, is something much taller than anything I've found; with width at or about 14 to 16 inches; and length at or about 26 inches. The Dewalt Tough System biggest box was the tallest and narrowest and longest box I could find, but it wasn't tall enough in order to give me the volume I needed to compete in the top bracket of riders.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:44 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Near the beginning of my daily commute; I get on a 65 mph four lane and go about 7.5 miles to a small town with about 5 traffic lights. I'll run 61 on that stretch and don't feel unsafe, as I think probably the median speed is around 68-69 on that stretch, as, like I say, we don't outnumber the cops too badly in this rural area, so most drivers don't get crazy, even the ones who'd like to. In general, people drive home faster than I see in the mornings, but the morning run starts before 6:30 a.m. If I were facing 7:30 traffic, it'd probably be worse.

Then I go a couple of miles through a small town; then on 2-lane, 55 mph, state hwy for about 17 miles. I run 57-58 and usually won't have traffic come up behind me, but do sometimes. It then opens up to 4-lane for a couple of miles and the limit goes to 60. I'll usually speed up to 60. It then turns off and goes along winding county roads down to and across a dam to a fish hatchery where I work. Absolutely beautiful country during this last leg. I'm never holding up traffic during that stretch and usually don't see any.

But I've noticed if I'm in big cities, people want to run me and others over, even running 5 mph over the speed limit. It's a different world; especially Nashville and i'ts metropolitan satellite cities.
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:02 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant-53 View Post
Except for the interstate most of us travel at 55 mph or the posted limit. Interstate travel is posted at 65 or 70 mph in most states. Just because some folks think highways are race tracks doesn't mean we have to follow suit. Yes, I understand the 80% rule of traffic and if things are too hairy I select an alternate route. I just had a conversation with a young man who is slowly recovering from a 130 mph motorcycle crash in Florida. With any group ride safety is paramount.
The record of 472 mpg was set at Laguna Seca by a Japanese rider in a full shell 125cc Honda. Actual riding conditions will vary so it is important to qualify city cycles and highway speed to understand the efficiency of the rider/ bike combination.
I agree. First thing to do if you want better mileage is to slow down. With almost any vehicle, peak mileage is at a speed of about 45 MPH.

I lived in the Chicago area for many years, and the posted limit was in no way the actual speed of the traffic. You absolutely need to add 10-15 MPH or more in order to keep up. Survival was the main concern, economy not so much.

I've questioned the need for the higher speeds on a "Fuel Economy Challenge", but if the course is in an area that has high speed traffic flow you are definitely safer "going with the flow".
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Old 05-31-2017, 11:55 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 103.51 mpg (US)

Ninja 250R SE Green - '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE
90 day: 65.9 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 42.77 mpg (US)

Kawi Ninja650 - '07 Kawasaki Ninja650
90 day: 54.85 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 103.38 mpg (US)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv357 View Post
I've questioned the need for the higher speeds on a "Fuel Economy Challenge", but if the course is in an area that has high speed traffic flow you are definitely safer "going with the flow".
The idea is to prove vehicles that are actually useful and can replace the other vehicles in the garage for greater fuel efficiency. So they must be capable of real world use in real traffic as dictated by the rest of the herd. Craig (and others) had contests that were won at 475 mpgUS by vehicles with top speeds of 55 mph 30 years ago. But these vehicles don't help us.
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:04 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 103.51 mpg (US)

Ninja 250R SE Green - '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE
90 day: 65.9 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 42.77 mpg (US)

Kawi Ninja650 - '07 Kawasaki Ninja650
90 day: 54.85 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 103.38 mpg (US)

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregsfc View Post
During the past year, I had done some thinking as to the best way for me to put a home made tail on my bike to help streamline it somewhat and to make it very useful. I'd lke to end up with something useful and easy, along the lines of what Sendler has had the last couple years in the Vetter Challenges with the tail he's had on his
The easiest and still aero method is the plank style DIY luggage system that I use on all of my other bikes. It bolts on and off of the passenger area as needed and is very versatile.
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Old 05-31-2017, 12:48 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
The idea is to prove vehicles that are actually useful and can replace the other vehicles in the garage for greater fuel efficiency. So they must be capable of real world use in real traffic as dictated by the rest of the herd. Craig (and others) had contests that were won at 475 mpgUS by vehicles with top speeds of 55 mph 30 years ago. But these vehicles don't help us.
I get that, but not that many people need to consistently cruise in that speed range (75 to 80). In some areas it may be the case, but that's not the most cycle-friendly environment when being pushed into that range by traffic flow.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Craig's Challenges, but his "real world" conditions" aren't the norm IMO. Holding a 45 MPH average all day long isn't either.
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Old 05-31-2017, 05:39 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
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90 day: 65.9 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 42.77 mpg (US)

Kawi Ninja650 - '07 Kawasaki Ninja650
90 day: 54.85 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 103.38 mpg (US)

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I have several different bikes and two cars to choose from. I lean toward the two wheelers for the riding experience but also because the best two motorcycles are almost three times as fuel efficient as my best car. Of the two, one has a top speed of 68 mph (the PCX) and so is relegated to travel up the back roads. The CBR250R has a top speed of 95 mph which allows me to use the Interstate. If I have to chase up to the tail end o the next group, or maintain 65 mph up the steep hills, the 250 can easily do it. Cruising the Interstate at 68mph with a blocker up the road in front of me is much, much safer than forging out alone after dark on the back roads. So I always choose the CBR. It is real world capable.
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Old 06-01-2017, 07:32 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkv357 View Post
I get that, but not that many people need to consistently cruise in that speed range (75 to 80). In some areas it may be the case, but that's not the most cycle-friendly environment when being pushed into that range by traffic flow.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a fan of Craig's Challenges, but his "real world" conditions" aren't the norm IMO. Holding a 45 MPH average all day long isn't either.
Having ridden in one mid-Ohio challenge, I'd say that at least this one challenge; at least on this one July day in 2014, was not an unreasonable, high-speed challenge; and considering that nearly all recorded years have recorded similar results; I'd say they are all like a typical bike ride where there are winding roads and some small-town riding and also some open areas and speed limits are exceeded only via the slinky effect that is normal for any convoy of several vehicles. In other words, very near realistic for easy-going riders, on a weekend ride along popular routes around where I live, but does preclude urban-only rides like 125 cc stock bikes and scooters. However, in 2014, I remember that there were at least two stock machines listed as 200s; a DR200 dual purpose and a Vespa 200 scooter that finished w/o getting passed. They finished second and third, as a measure of cost/mile and mpg among stock bikes that day. The Vespa was behind me. The group got split in half behind me just prior to getting on the interstate. The Vespa actually caught up some during highest-speed segment. My speedo is very accurate, and I looked down and saw 73, and I saw the Vespa slowly catching the front group.

I'd say that nowadays, the most unrealistic part, besides the 4-bag rule, has become the long and frequent refueling stops, and that will likely hurt my score, as Honda's 670 twin is most efficient when it's at operating temperatur and I'd do much better with only one or two stops. I'm in no way against electric anything, but it's sort of contradictory to demand that a motorcycle carry that much stuff on the one hand to be considered practical, yet on the other hand, it doesn't have to go 175 miles, or even half that, or one-third that without fueling. Very odd for a challenge that's advertising a real-world day ride.
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Old 06-01-2017, 10:58 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gregsfc View Post
During the past year, I had done some thinking as to the best way for me to put a home made tail on my bike to help streamline it somewhat and to make it very useful.
I've attached a photo of Peter Fouché's EX500FF with tail. My one concern here is the height of the tail to fair in a not-very-low rider giving a large lever arm to sidewinds compared to the streamliner 250 Ninja or what might be had on a Gurney Alligator.

cheers,
Michael

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