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Old 12-01-2012, 11:12 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Vetter streamliner body kit

Craig Vetter is calling for a show of hands of interest for his streamlined motorcycle body work kit which is now in the final stages of pre production.
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2012 Vetter Streamliner Kit-Chap 61
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Several years of real world testing have proven 100 mpgUS at 70 mph on a first gen Ninja250 which can be purchased used for $1000. Better cams for the Ninja or a more efficient bike like a CBR250R or 125R could do considerably better on fuel. Streamlining will make an electric bike go much farther also.
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Warm, dry, steady and quiet in buffeting winds. And locking storage for 100+ liters of gear or groceries. Use the full tail for the best aerodynamics or truncate the shape behind the rear wheel for easier parking in the garage.
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Every commuter or world traveler that is fit enough to ride needs one of these to help save our remaining resources.
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Build a Vetter streamliner and help spread the word.
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Old 12-01-2012, 12:43 PM   #2 (permalink)
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More from Vetter on Streamliner Kit

Thank you for this new thread. At the risk of sounding redundant... there is only one optimum streamlined body shape for the conditions I am designing for... The Vetter Conditions of "70 mph, into a 30 mph headwind, sitting up and being comfortable, being able to carry a useful load - like 4 bags of groceries, being our first choice vehicle in the garage."

Other shapes may be for crouched-over riding or carrying no load, or for 55 mph riding... like the one that evolved in the 1980s Vetter Contests They don't address today's driving and are not relevant.

My latest Streamliner is the optimum shape for today's conditions. Oh, it may vary an inch here or an inch there. But this is it.

It is our nature as designers to think that "another shape might be better".

Get over it. I had to.

As a designer, I try to get the "big parts" right. It has taken four years. I leave it to others to refine... changing a % here and there. Isn't it better to be spend our time refining the correct shape rather than wasting time on a foolish one?

Speaking of refining... To keep this post brief (so you can respond) I have developed only those parts that would be hard for you to make yourself. The proposed Vetter Streamliner Kit reflects much more than the correct shape. It is be made up of five curvy fiberglass pieces that can be economically shipped. The tail is a simple cone of .020" aluminum or milk carton paper with an aluminum foil tape skin. Everything is designed to be light, cheap, easy to repair and available where you are.

The whole point of these posts are to find out if anybody actually is interested in buying Vetter Streamliner Kits. I do not want to waste time providing solutions to problems you don't think you have.

Comments?


Craig
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:26 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
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90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

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90 day: 62.86 mpg (US)

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I would be in for a nose and a cowl. Having the built in hand deflectors would be a big benefit when riding in cold or rain. The new cowl and windscreen were the final pieces of your design that really make yours and Alan's bike look trick! These are the complex parts. I understand the desire for minimizing the weight behind the rear wheel and the complexity of the size relationship/ angles involved in fitting bulkheads into a cone in order to get a nice, wrinkle free skin, but these are parts that can be just as easily cut locally with the correct angle on a reciprocating saw from light boat plywood once the templates and angles are designed. I see the tail as being built on a plywood spine running lengthwise along the rear seat frame with bulk heads at the front and behind the rear tire. The inside portions of the plywood then also cut and skeletonized to save weight.
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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From your linked site I see you are expecting a cost of about $2250 to get a kit shipped. What all comes in this kit? What was the average MPG going to be?

I built a tail and a nose cone for my car for about $600-700 so I am wondering what is driving that cost?

If I do a bit of ROI calcs:
If i could get the bike for ~$1000 and a kit for $2250 I would have to save a lot of $$$ per year to make the ROI work. reregistration and insurance would be several hundred a year so that would make the ROI a long time indeed for me as I only spend about $1100 in gas a year. If you doubled my MPG to 100 I would half my fuel cost and then after the costs for the bike each year I would save $200 but In MI you cannot ride all year at best you can get 8 months of the year. so at best I would break even each year. If it got 150 MPG then it would save me a net of about $300 a year. thats 3 or more years for the bike then how long for the kit?

Now if I got 30 mpg and wanted the extra risk of riding a bike it would be a fun project
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Old 12-01-2012, 01:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Sendler: The nose pieces certainly make the nose easy. RE the back... while the last rearward bulkhead is an easy wood thing, the front, with its generously rounded corner, is not so easy.

RE freshening up the Helix. You are right. I need to find a good mechanic to make it right. It might be cheaper to buy an entire Helix and swap parts.

Weather Spotter: I agree. I don't think streamlining pencils out today. Why do we do it then? For me, it is to learn the TRUTH. Pioneering is pretty heady stuff.

It is possible that fuel will become precious someday. I'd like to be ready, wouldn't you? New Yorkers have been standing in long lines for 5 gallons of gas. Alan Smith goes 400 miles on 4 gallons on his Vetter streamlined Ninja.

With a streamlined, 20 hp bike, you will be as ready as is possible.

Bottom line:

What I seek is a noble goal... to be "living better on less energy."

Well, I count one vote for a nose set. Good.
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Old 12-01-2012, 03:44 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I would agree that trying is great! being prepaired is one point to why I modded my car. I can get 76 MPG in the summer and mid 50s in the winter that is still double epa! and I can do that with 5 people and gear so person miles I am ahead

If I already had a bike then doing this would be fun. I think the nose part would be worth paying for but I think I would have fun building the back

Would the kit work for a 49cc scooter? those are cheep and get 100 MPG to start with. no insurance needed if it under 50cc. technically (legal) limited to 30mph but no cop cares. the biggest thing with them for top speed is aero. my bother had one and could get 5 mph more ducking down for less aero drag.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:10 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Car vs bike fuel consumption

There is the very real possibility that, ultimately, a car can go farther on less fuel than a 2 wheeler. The reason is that it can be aerodynamically cleaner with a not much bigger frontal area.

Why do I do bikes? I like bikes. Better yet, the government stays out of my life more with bikes. If I actually manufactured a bike, I'd have no crash testing... air bags, emission testing, etc.

49 cc - about 5 hp - ain't going to give you 70 mph, into any headwind. You need at least 16 hp. But it is looking like, for longevity, maybe 20 hp is needed.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:17 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Honda CBR250R FI Single - '11 Honda CBR250R
90 day: 95.91 mpg (US)

Ninja 250R SE Green - '09 Kawasaki Ninja 250R SE
90 day: 65.9 mpg (US)

2001 Honda Insight stick - '01 Honda Insight manual
90 day: 60.68 mpg (US)

2009 Honda Fit auto - '09 Honda Fit Auto
90 day: 32.56 mpg (US)

Kawi Ninja650 - '07 Kawasaki Ninja650
90 day: 62.86 mpg (US)

PCX153 - '13 Honda PCX150
90 day: 98.15 mpg (US)
Thanks: 74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Weather Spotter View Post
76 MPG in the summer and mid 50s in the winter
I knew this was coming next. Some of you guys must have a perpetual tail wind. I have driven my 2001 Honda insight 140,000 miles over the last 7 years. My best summer averages were 68 mpgUS at 65 mph. And I draft. I have entered competitions with the highly modified Alfred State University Insight. The best they can do is 82 mpgUS at 45 mph.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:18 PM   #9 (permalink)
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AeroTrix - '06 Toyota Matrix base
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How fast could a 5 hp go? 30-40 mph no aero work . All I need is 55mph since scooters are not allowed anyway.
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Old 12-01-2012, 04:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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AeroTrix - '06 Toyota Matrix base
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sendler View Post
I knew this was coming next. Some of you guys must have a perpetual tail wind. I have driven my 2001 Honda insight 140,000 miles over the last 7 years. My best summer averages were 68 mpgUS at 65 mph. And I draft. I have entered competitions with the highly modified Alfred State University Insight. The best they can do is 82 mpgUS at 45 mph.
It's a max of 50-55mpg at steady speeds. I use pulse and glide heavily and that is what helps the mpg. Tail winds are nice but my record tank of 75 mpg was trips back and forth to work. Tends to even out the wind. I tended to get harder head winds on the way home in the afternoon then I got helping me on the way to work ( winds are softer at 5am).

I like the overall goal of the project but

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