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Old 09-23-2017, 01:25 AM   #21 (permalink)
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We get screwed on towing capacity in the US. Too many lawyers and lawsuit friendly legislation. My Forester, made in Japan, is exactly the same as the one sold in say South Africa but with 1/2 the rating. It's not like at the time in 2002 Subaru had some other vehicle to upsell to you if you wanted more towing ability so I don't buy the argument automakers lower the ratings here because they want you to buy marked up SUVs and pickups. They don't want the liability. I remember when visiting Australia a guy took us fishing in the first generation Rav4 way up high in Tasmania towing a pretty good size 18' fiberglass boat, 3 full size men, and all gear. You would never see that in the US. I was impressed by the RAV4 and checked out the US ratings when we got back. It was like 1500 pounds with the factory tow package. That Aussie had at least 4000 pounds in tow and climbed the mountain with it.

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Old 09-23-2017, 02:25 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Yeah but the US has mountain at 12-14,000 feet and higher speed limits.

PS: one of my daughters was in Missoula today, out there for Iowa State University forestry camp for 2 more weeks.
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Old 09-23-2017, 09:40 AM   #23 (permalink)
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The longest highway in Japan is 462.1 miles and the highway speed limit is 100 KPH.

Don't we have stretches of 80+?
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Old 09-23-2017, 12:42 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
We get screwed on towing capacity in the US. Too many lawyers and lawsuit friendly legislation. My Forester, made in Japan, is exactly the same as the one sold in say South Africa but with 1/2 the rating. It's not like at the time in 2002 Subaru had some other vehicle to upsell to you if you wanted more towing ability so I don't buy the argument automakers lower the ratings here because they want you to buy marked up SUVs and pickups. They don't want the liability. I remember when visiting Australia a guy took us fishing in the first generation Rav4 way up high in Tasmania towing a pretty good size 18' fiberglass boat, 3 full size men, and all gear. You would never see that in the US. I was impressed by the RAV4 and checked out the US ratings when we got back. It was like 1500 pounds with the factory tow package. That Aussie had at least 4000 pounds in tow and climbed the mountain with it.
The manufacturer isn't liable for what you do with it. And we could go on quite a ways about what constitutes towing attributes. What can do what.

Sure, profits a big part of it. Nothing else is close to a pickup in that. The automakers would fold up without it.

Nothing stops you from making your own decision about what to tow, and how to tow it.

On the Airstream forums are those who don't believe you can't tow a 30' without a one ton. If it has a 1200-lb tongue weight, then after proper use of a weight distributing hitch, that's about 450-lbs per tow vehicle axle.

And that's in the territory of plenty of vans, SUVs and cars.

"Tow capacity" or "payload capacity" don't mean a great deal. Recommendations. Not law.

One weighs the vehicle to get axle reading. And doesn't exceed axle/wheel/tire limits.

More detail applies afterwards.

What matters most about a tow vehicle is that it best suit SOLO duty. AND can tow the trailer.

For some instances, that's making sure all vehicle heavy duty pieces are in place, and checking the biggest motor. But same vehicle otherwise.

And I don't know where you've gotten the impression a 6.7L ISB doesn't require injector replacement at some point. All Diesel engines will.
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Old 09-23-2017, 01:03 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtamiyaphile View Post
So much talk of big blocks on here.

My Trafic is a 1.6, much bigger than a Touareg and rated for 5tons GCM.

Sits on around 6l/100km at 100km/h.
You're from a country that has no road system comparable. Not even a population sufficient to support cross-island rail service. Nor was ever self-sufficient in petroleum much less an exporter. Do you even manufacture your own vehicles, or all they all imports?

We could plop down the populated regions of Aussie land in a back corner around here and no one would notice you for weeks.

Your 5T trucklet is something no one willingly drives past fifty miles at a time. Do you rack up the equivalent of 100k miles in 3,4 years? That's what some metro service personnel do. Ranchers and farmers.

We have Class 4 & 5 trucks with 5T capacity and more. Same motor as some ordinary pickups. But they can cross the continent in a timely manner. Yours wouldn't make it over the Arbuckles without a jam up, much less the Rockies, the Appalachians or Cascades. Plenty of difficult terrain here. To cross or to live within.

I notice that semi-trailer service is similar. Same trucks, trans and engines. They go somewhere, and they do it in scheduled service. Capacity and timeliness. Thus, same solution (but more focused on longevity and fuel burn; tax structure, etc).

And weight distribution hitches are new, there. We've had them over fifty years. See Collyn Rivers articles and posts on Caravanners. Salient difference is that we stay on pavement and you don't. Other differences apply (A-frame length, etc)

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Old 09-23-2017, 01:35 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roosterk0031 View Post
Yeah but the US has mountain at 12-14,000 feet and higher speed limits.

PS: one of my daughters was in Missoula today, out there for Iowa State University forestry camp for 2 more weeks.
She's lucky the fires are out and the smoke cleared, it's beautiful fall weather now. Great for working in the woods.
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Old 09-23-2017, 01:53 PM   #27 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
The manufacturer isn't liable for what you do with it. And we could go on quite a ways about what constitutes towing attributes. What can do what.

And I don't know where you've gotten the impression a 6.7L ISB doesn't require injector replacement at some point. All Diesel engines will.
They would get sued if they put the ratings higher and there was an accident. People sue car makers here all the time and win for what is clearly fault and neglect of the drivers involved. The people involved have limited money and the jurors see a crying family and big stack of money and give them a little peice of it.

I don't think the 6.7 injectors are indestructible but some injector places have put out their failure rate is 10 times less than the 5.9 common rail injectors are or ever have been. The 5.9 CR injectors are the one big black eye in the history of Cummins diesels in pickups. I would have probably not bought any 03-08 knowing how bad and how expensive the problem. The poor factory filtration didn't help matters but clearly the injectors needed an upgrade as well which they did on the 6.7.

It's good for me that so many love the pre-emission CR 5.9 anyway. Makes my old tired motor worth as much as a much fresher 6.7 out of a wreck. I probably will just sell the whole truck before it needs injectors and just get the better cab as well with the 2010up model. I have got my truck up to 20.9 mpg on a tank not towing and 12.5 towing the big camper so was pretty happy about that. My wife doesn't like the space much inside though.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:29 PM   #28 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowmover View Post
Your 5T trucklet is something no one willingly drives past fifty miles at a time. Do you rack up the equivalent of 100k miles in 3,4 years? That's what some metro service personnel do. Ranchers and farmers.
Lol, man your ignorance is showing. You realise my little 'trucklet' is sits at 1971mm high, which is right in the middle of the 19232052 mm wiki lists for the 3rd gen Ram? It's about 6" longer than the Shortest Ram. Still does 0-60mph in 10 seconds, my previous POS VW did it in 9 with a half ton on board (that's how VW rated them). But I get 35+mpg city, 40+ hwy.

These 'trucklets' are the backbone of Europe, and I'm pretty sure they have these things call the Alps.

I'd happily drive mine anywhere, plenty of space (probably more than the standard US pickup as a big engine up from eats into foot space), three abreast can be tight for the passengers, but there's even a fold down arm rest for the driver. Ride is as good as my Prius, so I'd rather drive the Trafic long distance than anything else I've got. Probably why you see them up and down the Autobahns at 100mph all day long. Sits on 60mph at 2000rpm with complete silence from the engine (just wind and road noise).

If I needed to tow 3.5 ton, I'd have gone up to the next size Euro, like an Iveco Daily- taller and wider than a Ram, 3+ ton towing depending on spec, and 30+mpg city.

We've got mountains and steep hills too, yours might be longer, but you run out of flat road momentum after a couple of miles, so that's a mute point. We also have on average longer trucks than the US and they slow right down to crawling speed to get up our little hills. The main road out of town semis sit in the slow lane at 30-40mph. Must be pretty steep then, right?
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:35 PM   #29 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hersbird View Post
We get screwed on towing capacity in the US. Too many lawyers and lawsuit friendly legislation. My Forester, made in Japan, is exactly the same as the one sold in say South Africa but with 1/2 the rating. It's not like at the time in 2002 Subaru had some other vehicle to upsell to you if you wanted more towing ability so I don't buy the argument automakers lower the ratings here because they want you to buy marked up SUVs and pickups. They don't want the liability. I remember when visiting Australia a guy took us fishing in the first generation Rav4 way up high in Tasmania towing a pretty good size 18' fiberglass boat, 3 full size men, and all gear. You would never see that in the US. I was impressed by the RAV4 and checked out the US ratings when we got back. It was like 1500 pounds with the factory tow package. That Aussie had at least 4000 pounds in tow and climbed the mountain with it.
It goes the other way too. My Jeep maintains the US tow ratings, so it is out towed by Suzuki Samurai's (Jimny). The Isuzu MU/ Amigo I had before it was the same size and weight with double the capacity.

The plus side is it's possible to get them re-engineered for a more sensible tow rating by fitting rear disc brakes and 'heavy duty' rear springs/ shocks. I know that 4.0 will eat up those Tassie hills.
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Old 09-23-2017, 10:36 PM   #30 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xist View Post
The longest highway in Japan is 462.1 miles and the highway speed limit is 100 KPH.

Don't we have stretches of 80+?
Europe has the Alps and Autobahns. Tow ratings are equal for Japanese and European models.

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