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Old 04-14-2012, 06:38 AM   #1 (permalink)
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water injection = Higher Efficiency?

hi guys,

Im trying to workout a way how water injection into the cylinder can be used to convert the waste heat energy specifically into more useable energy, easily.

try reading about the crower 6 stroke engine and you'll see the angle im trying to get at.

basically, ICE's lose 30% of energy as waste heat out the tailpipes and radiator. how can we get that 30% to do some work?

water expands ~ x1800 by vol when it absorbs heat energy, its latent heat of phase changes is comparatively high. meaning, so long as is doesnt hamper the combustion process itself, it "should" be able to absorb the waste heat energy in the combustion cycle and provide additional pressure energy to the piston similar to a forced induction setup.

an easy way i see of implementing this is trying water injection(NOT METHANOL) into a nicely setup lean burn engine(where all the LB bugs have been worked out).

what do you guys think?

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Old 04-14-2012, 07:19 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I've been thinking about this for a while, and instead of putting down the money for a kit with pump, injector, and controller, I was just thinking of doing this:



The only thing I'm waiting for is the time to get started on all my projects.

This isn't as good as mist injection, but this more closely resembles driving on a foggy night which has shown to increase fuel economy. Plus, this setup is practically free.

I think it'll work, because unlike a lot of MPG enhancers, the science behind this idea is sound. If you try it out, be sure to let us know how it works.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:18 AM   #3 (permalink)
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If you read my wiki and bothered to check my links, water injection on a gasoline engine doesn't appear to boost FE.

Water injection - EcoModder
http://www.files.thinksitout.com/Alt...e%20Engine.pdf

I think you are better off looking for other ways to boost fuel economy on a gasser.
You can always try.

Water injection has proven its self enough for me to where this weekend or next I am going to try and fit a 2003 duramax 40 gallon diesel fuel side tank on my suburban for holding water for the water injection system.
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Old 04-14-2012, 11:56 AM   #4 (permalink)
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water injection has been on my todo list also.

I think a big key is going to be to get the water vaporized to steam, and I think you need a LOT of water.

Maybe enough water to where you don't need a throttle plate or you get rid of your pumping losses?
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drmiller100 View Post
water injection has been on my todo list also.

I think a big key is going to be to get the water vaporized to steam, and I think you need a LOT of water.

Maybe enough water to where you don't need a throttle plate or you get rid of your pumping losses?
...+1, see my earlier posting on this exact subject: http://ecomodder.com/forum/180860-post10.html
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:31 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I tried this on a Ford back in the 80's.

From what I remember you only see gains on a very high compression engine. The water helps prevent detonation and allows for greater horsepower. Don't know what it does for FE.

Some radial engines in WW2 used water injection to increase horsepower.
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Old 04-14-2012, 02:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm adding your single post to my WMI wiki.
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Old 04-14-2012, 03:13 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MorphDaCivic View Post
I tried this on a Ford back in the 80's.

From what I remember you only see gains on a very high compression engine. The water helps prevent detonation and allows for greater horsepower. Don't know what it does for FE.

Some radial engines in WW2 used water injection to increase horsepower.
Actually the WW2 engines used water injection for emergency power situations, where boost was a high as two atmospheres or more. I think it went to 35 PSI boost, which at sea level meant the engine would blow up in a matter of minutes, if not seconds.
War Emergency Power settings were for emergencies only, like in a B17 where you had two engines shot out and you needed to clear the coastline in order to ditch.
Heard once about a B17 that skipped itself over the channel and just cleared the cliffs of Dover on one engine.
You can get a lot of power out of a car engine. The old SOHC Nissan V6s (2 valve) were used in Rutans Pond Racer. They were boosted up to 1000 HP but engine life expectancy was measured in hours or less.


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Old 04-14-2012, 03:56 PM   #9 (permalink)
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water injection also enables you to run advanced timing, which should help f.e.
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Old 04-15-2012, 10:21 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Water injection by itself on a normally aspirated engine is not going to return any FE or power gains. It does do a fabulous job of cleaning combustion chamber and piston of deposits that may have formed. If you raise the compression/expasion ratio along with water injection then you will realize FE and power gains.

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