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Old 09-16-2017, 10:45 AM   #31 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Originally Posted by ctmaybury@yahoo.com View Post
It does seem unlikely for water to collect in the cranckcase given the heat and cranckcase vent.
Gotta have to agree on that. Anyway, since the humidity embedded in the intake stream during a rainy day actually retains more residual heat that would otherwise irradiate through the cylinder liners to the cooling water jacket (or the cooling fins if we were looking at an air-cooled engine), it doesn't sound likely that any small amount of steam would condense and fall through the pistons. Steam also tends to go upstream, so it would also pick more residual heat from the cylinder head and eventually escape easier when the exhaust valve opens.

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Old 09-18-2017, 10:45 AM   #32 (permalink)
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Seems like a good mod to try. I'm already doing lpg fumigation with good results. I have 3 stages that key on boost pressure. I'm going to add a few more stages. I think you would need high pressure and good nozzles to get the best atomisation you can. Big drops of water wouldn't help much. If you drop the combustion heat with water, you pobably increase the hydrocarbons in the exhaust and reduce the nitrogen oxides.
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Old 09-20-2017, 11:12 AM   #33 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Originally Posted by ctmaybury@yahoo.com View Post
I'm already doing lpg fumigation with good results.
What vehicle are you doing the LPG fumigation? Is it Diesel-powered?


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I think you would need high pressure and good nozzles to get the best atomisation you can. Big drops of water wouldn't help much.
Atomisation is the key, and adding some alcohol (methanol, ethanol, whatever) usually also helps vaporising the water at the intake stream.


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If you drop the combustion heat with water, you pobably increase the hydrocarbons in the exhaust and reduce the nitrogen oxides.
Sure it reduces the NOx, but any increase in HC emissions is quite arguable. Dropping the intake temperature with water injection usually leads to a denser air flow, with a higher concentration of oxygen which then leads to a more accurate combustion. OTOH we also may remember it's likely to also involve a leaning of the air/fuel ratio, while the water helps cooling down the pistons instead of relying on a richer mixture for that matter. Anyway, since the water has a higher thermal conductibility than air, it retains some heat that would otherwise be wasted instead of turned into motion.
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Old 09-20-2017, 01:47 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Lpg fumigation now is on my 98 dodge 2500 24v cummins 5sp. Before lpg, it regularly got 17 plus mpg and a best tank of 20.15 mpg. My tanks are true mixed driving with about 30 percent highway and the rest mountain dirt roads, sometimes with trailer always with tools and building materials. I don't want to report my mileage with lpg yet as I just hooked it up again after several years without. Burned up about half a tank so far and it looks like a good one based on odometer and fuel gauge, but you never know until the fill up.

Water/methanol is a common mod for these trucks. I'm still dialling in the lpg so won't mess with water yet.

My other work truck is going to be the true experimental platform. The 98 has an ecu that controls injection timing, fuel duration and a whole host of parameters that make it difficult to mod one aspect and pinpoint cause and effect. My 99 dodge is also a 24v cummins, but I recently put in a p7100 injection pump from the previous generation dodge. Injection timing is fixed but adjustable. The engine is entirely mechanical. I put arp head studs on to handle the extra cylinder pressure from the lpg. Right now I'm running about 3% lpg, but will slowly increase to about 15% or so. I'll start a thread when I have more to report on lpg.

Sorry about hijacking the thread.
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Old 09-20-2017, 10:52 PM   #35 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Originally Posted by ctmaybury@yahoo.com View Post
I'm still dialling in the lpg so won't mess with water yet.
I have actually never seen LPG and water injection being used simultaneously.
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Old 09-21-2017, 11:15 AM   #36 (permalink)
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It would be an either or not simultaneously.
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Old 09-21-2017, 01:44 PM   #37 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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There was at least one member of this forum who was trying to add steam to the intake of an LPG-powered Mercedes-Benz.
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Old 09-21-2017, 03:03 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Lpg only or lpg fumigation on a diesel engine? Lpg by itself doesn't have the btu content other fuels have, but it is cheap, so might be economical. A small quantity in a diesel engine is supposed to speed up the burn and help burn some of the diesel fuel that would otherwise go unburned out the tailpipe. There is definitely room for improvement on my old dodge trucks. If it's true, I should see an increase in efficiency and a decrease in hc out the tailpipe. I already have a dramatic power increase and a few subtle improvements like sound reduction and smoke reduction. The smoke reduction points to a more complete burn.

I'm going to search out the mb steam thread. Sounds interesting.
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:20 PM   #39 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctmaybury@yahoo.com View Post
Lpg only or lpg fumigation on a diesel engine?
Spark-ignited converted from gasoline-only to bi-fuel gasoline/LPG.


Quote:
Lpg by itself doesn't have the btu content other fuels have, but it is cheap, so might be economical. A small quantity in a diesel engine is supposed to speed up the burn and help burn some of the diesel fuel that would otherwise go unburned out the tailpipe. There is definitely room for improvement on my old dodge trucks. If it's true, I should see an increase in efficiency and a decrease in hc out the tailpipe. I already have a dramatic power increase and a few subtle improvements like sound reduction and smoke reduction. The smoke reduction points to a more complete burn.
Even though it doesn't have an outstanding BTU content, the cooling effect it proportionates when fumigated at the intake stream is worth, acting quite like a chemical intercooler. And since it's more volatile than Diesel fuel, sure it's likely to increase the flame spread throughout the combustion chambers, leading to a more accurate burn which not just decreases overall emissions but also take more benefit of the energy content of the Diesel fuel. Considering that Diesel usually runs leaner for the sake of economy, that extra amount of fuel supplied through LPG fumigation won't be too much of a problem. Eventually, if you were not into LPG fumigation as a power booster, could trim the Diesel fuel injection down a little without any decrease to performance or any side-effect on emissions compared to stock.


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I'm going to search out the mb steam thread. Sounds interesting.
I'd only consider adding steam in a Diesel if you do it as a replacement to EGR. You might know, hot gases flowing through the intake tract while still expanding are likely to decrease the dynamic compression, which may affect the ability of the Diesel engine to generate enough aerodynamic heating of the intake charge.
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Old 09-21-2017, 07:57 PM   #40 (permalink)
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The chemical intercooler effect is part of what I'm after. I'm going to take further advantage of that effect and use an evaporator style regulator from a forklift that uses the liquid propane and requires warm water to keep the reg from freezing. The water will come from the water to air intercooler I'm planning. No sense in wasting all that free cold from the evaporation of the propane. I'll get less restriction on my intake air stream and a more efficient intercooler. The custom header I'm going to build will further reduce pumping losses and increase the efficiency of the turbo.

Wish I could start on all that tonight.

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