What is the Future of the Honda Insight 1?

[jimepting]

Like many here I maintain an interest in the Insight 1, and would love to have one. But, I'm begining to wonder what the future of the car might be. No one wants to own an orphan.

1. Will Honda continue to supply the battery pack at a reasonable cost, long after the 150,000 mi warranty (I think it is) expires?

2. Will Honda technicians continue to be tained to troubleshoot and maintain the car?

3. In the absence of either of the above, will reliable independent resources spring up for such a low production car?

4. Other complications to ownership of an obsolete, low production volume car?

I'm sure that Honda probably hasn't answered these questions, but even knowledgable speculation would be welcome. I'm contemplating the purchase of a car, but the BIG questions have me stalled. Thanks folks. Great site as always!

[jamesqf]

I think you're wrong on several of your points. First, quite a few people want to own those "orphans", as you call them. They're called automobile enthusiasts.

Second, anyone who actually buys a battery pack from Honda (vs getting it replaced under warranty) must like tossing money away. Much cheaper just to check the internet for a used one.

As for the maintenance, what sensible person trusts auto dealers to do theirs? Especially if you're one of the enthusiasts who're likely to own an Insight, because then you ENJOY doing the work yourself.

And as for the Insight becoming obsolete... Well, I suppose it'll happen someday, but at the rate the mainstream automakers are going, it doesn't seem likely to be any time soon. Is there any other car out there (except the Tesla & Aptera) that gets over 70 mpg, has two seats, and is fun to drive?

[SVOboy]

90% of the people I know who own Insights couldn't change their own oil for their lives, I wouldn't call them auto enthusiasts.

However, I think Honda will continue to provide support through the normal lifecycle of any car's support. They still make 88 crx parts, after all

[cfg83]

SVOboy -

Originally Posted by SVOboy

90% of the people I know who own Insights couldn't change their own oil for their lives, I wouldn't call them auto enthusiasts.

However, I think Honda will continue to provide support through the normal lifecycle of any car's support. They still make 88 crx parts, after all

Ha ha, not changing oil, that's totally me, .

Would the 88 CRX be an equal comparison? The number of CRX's sold would be much greater, it would share lots of drive train parts with the other Civics, and it would have the "tuner effect" to extend the life of the parts train.

But I can easily imagine a network of people like jamesqf that would seek to fabricate/replace parts to keep Insight's chugging along.

Question: Is the 1st gen Insight battery pack the same as the 1st gen Civic Hybrid battery pack?

CarloSW2

[SVOboy]

The CRX isn't a good analogy, of course, but I think Honda's policy is something like 20 years of parts availability. It's probably listed in the warranty somewhere

[jimepting]

Gosh, I didn't mean to offend you, as I seem to have done. I think my questions are reasonable ones when one considers a low volume car which is no longer in production.

Originally Posted by jamesqf

I think you're wrong on several of your points. First, quite a few people want to own those "orphans", as you call them. They're called automobile enthusiasts.

If you really knew me, you'd know that are few greater car entheusists than I. I've owned and competed in sports cars for all my adult life, which is considerable. And I'm fully capable of doing car repairsa, building engines, or many other auto like stuff. But, I don't have the sophisticated test equipment to trouble shoot a modern hybride beyond the simpler problems. I doubt that few do.

Second, anyone who actually buys a battery pack from Honda (vs getting it replaced under warranty) must like tossing money away. Much cheaper just to check the internet for a used one.

I already understood that Honda would make a warranty replacement for some specified mileage which I thought was 150,000 miles. If that isn't the number, then give me the correct number. In any case, many of these very desirable cars are getting into high mileage, if my internet shopping is any guide, so the length of warranty is relevant.

As for the maintenance, what sensible person trusts auto dealers to do theirs? Especially if you're one of the enthusiasts who're likely to own an Insight, because then you ENJOY doing the work yourself.

I think this a bit elistist if I may say so. Sure, lots of folks do "most" of their own maintenance, including me, but many can't or don't. I have a 300hp Cat powered motorhome with 120,000 miles which has never seen the inside of a professional shop, but it would be very difficult for me to pull the head and do a valve job. I also have a 129,000 mile Echo which only saw the inside of a dealers shop when I mistakenly thought I had a warranty repair. I have two road racing championships with engines that I built and dyno developed, so don't lecture me about doing my own work. You are making loose and incorrect assumptions.

And as for the Insight becoming obsolete... Well, I suppose it'll happen someday, but at the rate the mainstream automakers are going, it doesn't seem likely to be any time soon. Is there any other car out there (except the Tesla & Aptera) that gets over 70 mpg, has two seats, and is fun to drive?

I pretty much agree, but how do we define "any time soon?" That was my real question.

I see that you are a fierce defender of the Insight, and rightly so. It is a wonderfully innovative car and I would love to own one.

[Chuck.]

I had a 1988 CRX HF and I think of my 2000 5-speed Insight as a hybrid version...main difference is obviously the powerplant, aluminum for steel in chassic and body, tapered end with half of the back with the traction battery.

The CRX has more quantity, but less durable (steel rusts). The Insight is holding up much better than my CRX did.

[some_other_dave]

This is a problem that has been solved in other contexts. Solutions from there could be applied in this case.

There are currently independent shops that specialize in cars that were made in relatively small numbers (e.g., Ferrari). So if there are enough Insight-I owners out there who don't mind paying top dollar for someone who knows their particular car very well, there will be shops to support them. And there will be people who come up with decent ways to substitute more modern parts for old ones that wear out (e.g., supercapacitors for when the battery packs are all dead--even the used ones).

So the price of keeping one around will go up, probably quite a bit, but I would think that they won't completely disappear.

IMHO, of course!

-soD

[Formula413]

Originally Posted by jimepting

I think this a bit elistist if I may say so.

James? Elitist? No way!!!

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by cfg83

Question: Is the 1st gen Insight battery pack the same as the 1st gen Civic Hybrid battery pack?

Unfortunately not. They're similar, but the Civic pack has the D cells assembled into units of 12 cells (two strings of 6 running parallel), while the Insight has sticks of 6 cells. Civic has one or two more of the assemblies, so higher voltage, the control electronics are different, etc.

As for me being an elitist, you're darned tooting I am!