Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now

Now available from EcoModder: ScanGauge II fuel economy gauge.  Click for details.  

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 01-25-2011, 01:43 AM   #51 (permalink)
PSmodder lurker
 
botsapper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Chino
Posts: 537
Thanks: 11
Thanked 154 Times in 93 Posts
A very complicated question on the evolution of the higher 'H'-point. Until just recently and unfortunately, the bean-counters/marketing analysts set product targets to which engineering/design professionals begin their work. Unfortunately this led the the demise of many car companies, where product was 'not' king.
In the case of the 'taller' dims, it is set by target specifications for the target demographics. Exterior proportions & designs are optimized for the occupant, cargo & system package. The previous generation sales champions - popular pickups/SUVs set the 'H'-point standard or benchmark for many new crossovers/new vehicles. They preserve the taller & upright seating (BMWs X3-5-6,MDX, MKX, SRX, Q5, Cayenne, CR-V, Countryman, etc). The key to maximizing interior space is raising the 'H' point - the elevation in which the driver and front passenger hips naturally sit. Elevated above where it would be in a conventional reclined driving position. The benefits are many: first it means the commanding driving position; secondly it means the driver's and passengers' hip to heel angle is as close to ease & comfort. Finally, and critically, a high and upright driving position provides more room in rear row seating.
There is a cool marketing/engineering/design infographic that could make sense on the creation of the production models.
process outline : curb industries


(Support Ecomodder.com & get rid of these annoying ads!)      
 
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 02:37 AM   #52 (permalink)
NightKnight
 
NachtRitter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Placerville, CA
Posts: 810

RippinRoo - '05 Legacy Wagon 2.5 GT
Last 3: 23.78 mpg (US)

Maus - '94 Civic VX
Team Honda
90 day: 54.33 mpg (US)

Helga - '00 Jetta TDI
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 57.68 mpg (US)
Thanks: 113
Thanked 82 Times in 48 Posts
I've never enjoyed cornering hard in a vehicle with an upright seating position... and since I like to conserve my momentum, I nearly always corner hard when I drive by myself (I give passengers a break).
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 02:57 AM   #53 (permalink)
ooo ooo ooo ah ah ah
 
Frank Lee's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: up north
Posts: 7,357

Blue - '93 Tempo
Last 3: 27.29 mpg (US)

ShWing! - '82 gold wing Interstate
90 day: 33.65 mpg (US)

F150 - '94 F150 XLT
90 day: 18.5 mpg (US)

Sport Coupe - '92 Tempo GL
Last 3: 69.62 mpg (US)

Moon Unit - '98 Sable LX Wagon
90 day: 21.24 mpg (US)
Thanks: 636
Thanked 848 Times in 591 Posts
I've had pretty much from one extreme to another: Microbus, bolt upright and high; to Spitfire, seat virtually on the floor, arms and legs straight out horizontal, the whole thing a few inches off the ground. There are pros and cons to each and AFAIC, they and many things inbetween are all OK as far as being able to be comfortable and controllable. I don't think seating position as it relates to potential comfort is the driver of higher heights.
__________________


  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 11:24 AM   #54 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 3,940

Mica Blue - '05 xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 48.22 mpg (US)

Josepha - '08 xD
90 day: 30.76 mpg (US)
Thanks: 513
Thanked 501 Times in 306 Posts
How low is too short?

Japanese high school team designs 18-inch tall electric car [w/video] — Autoblog Green
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2011, 12:30 PM   #55 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Earth
Posts: 2,652
Thanks: 31
Thanked 237 Times in 171 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by botsapper View Post
The key to maximizing interior space is raising the 'H' point - the elevation in which the driver and front passenger hips naturally sit.
That's still going back to the "design for one market segment, and forget the rest" philosophy. I'm not the least interested in maximizing interior space, or the comfort of back-seat passengers that I'd never have ('cause I don't want a back seat).
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2011, 11:13 AM   #56 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
basjoos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Upstate SC
Posts: 740

Aerocivic - '92 Civic CX
Last 3: 70.54 mpg (US)

AerocivicLB - '92 Civic CX
Team Honda
90 day: 70.97 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1
Thanked 147 Times in 77 Posts
Another question that might be related is "Have bumper heights increased since the 80's?" With the advent of SUV/truck popularity, you had a large population of vehicles introduced to the road with their bumpers at a much greater height than the average car bumper and which presented a great safety threat to them. So taller cars might be a way for car designers to design taller bumpers into a car that are a closer match with SUV/truck bumper height. One advantage of my boattail is that it puts my bumper (the tip of the boattail) at the same height as the bumper on my F-150, which is at typical SUV height and rides over the height of my OEM Civic bumpers, rendering them almost useless in a crash with a SUV or full size pickup.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2011, 11:29 AM   #57 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South Africa
Posts: 68

Old but Gold - '87 Jetta CSL
90 day: 30.87 mpg (US)
Thanks: 5
Thanked 9 Times in 6 Posts
I also don't quite get this either... smaller run-abouts seem to have more headroom inside the car than a nice-sized family sedan. What's the point of making a smaller car that's lighter and narrower, only to add unnecessary height to the roof? This only increases the frontal area again, actually robbing the car ever so slightly from a selling point small cars are usually marketed for: Their fuel economy.

I would like to see more small coupés. Many young people work much longer before starting a family with kids, making a small coupé version of (say) the Daihatsu Cuore/Charade totally valid in my opinion.
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2011, 01:38 PM   #58 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
PaleMelanesian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,479

PaleCivic - '96 Civic DX Sedan
Team Honda
90 day: 74.33 mpg (US)
Thanks: 148
Thanked 138 Times in 97 Posts
When I'm going to be driving for a long time, I adjust the seatback a notch or two more vertical to reduce back/shoulder strain.
__________________
- - - - -Best 11-mile commute: 105 mpg
- - - - -Best tank: 88.5 mpg / 1133 miles
  Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2011, 02:00 PM   #59 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 865
Thanks: 29
Thanked 108 Times in 80 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by SvdM View Post
I also don't quite get this either... smaller run-abouts seem to have more headroom inside the car than a nice-sized family sedan. What's the point of making a smaller car that's lighter and narrower, only to add unnecessary height to the roof?
It is done for marketing appeal. It creates the illusion that a small car is roomier inside and appears larger than it actually is. It may actually have more total interior cubic foot space due to the increased headroom, but most of that space is unusable or serves no purpose (other than creating the desired illusion).

Since most American vehicles in recent decades have been SUVs, the fashion has been to make everything look like an SUV, even if it is a small car. (We may tend to think in terms of practicality and fuel economy, but the average car buyer does not.) The reason I don't own an SUV is because they have a large exterior but usually are not very roomy in cargo area capacity.


(Support Ecomodder.com & get rid of these annoying ads!)      
 
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread

Thread Tools





Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2012, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com