Air-take verses direct hho injection into manifold

[teoman]

Wonder how much of a gain porsche obtained.

[matt36415]

Originally Posted by Isaac Zackary

The goal has generally been to sync the intake going in for years with tube length and width in order to improve performance. But I understand that Porsche is doing the opposite and is getting better fuel mileage results due to cooling of the intake charge (air cools as you stretch it). Which in combination of a turbocharger still allows for a better intake charge than a normal engine. In other words, it's compressed by the turbocharger then stretched back out through harmonics in order to cool the intake without using a restrictive source like a throttle valve for each intake runner. This allows for greater boost, lower NOx emissions and better power and fuel mileage.

Boyle’s law tells us that if pressure in a gas is increased then temp increases (I can’t remember the ratio) and it cools as pressure is reduced so ‘stretching’ air - which I assume means reducing its pressure and therfore density would cool it back to the starting temp. You can’t (I’m pretty sure physics won’t let you) keep the higher pressure from the turbo and let the temp drop without somewhere for the heat energy to go like an intercooler.

[enator]

Years ago, I tried that on a Sable wagon. Instead of connecting my HHO to the alternator, I hooked it up to two trolling/RV batteries. I also made a poor man's O2 sensor modification by putting about 0.1-0.2V bias to make the engine run leaner Also tried the oil anti fowler for sparkplugs on the O2 sensor. NO DIFFERENCE FOUND. A TOTAL WASTE OF TIME. I thought using the batteries, would make a poor man's hybrid, but HHO did not work at all.

[teoman]

Some dude on here was running around with a tank of hydrogen in his passanger seat.


His resuls also indicated no benefit.

[enator]

Originally Posted by teoman

Some dude on here was running around with a tank of hydrogen in his passanger seat.


His resuls also indicated no benefit.

Oh my! results would be quite explosive in an accident!

[teoman]

The things one does to find the truth...

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by enator

Oh my! results would be quite explosive in an accident!

They can burn and cause a large plume of almost invisible flame. I watched the local Sheriff fire a 30-06 through various tanks. The propane/natural gas and hydrogen tank did not explode. They didn't even ignite. The gasoline tank did ignite and eventually exploded. The lithium-ion battery did too. This was for a county wide demonstration and training for first-responders as an introduction to various alternative fuel vehicle treatments.

Gasoline is by far the most dangerous fuel we use.

[RedDevil]

but if a little bit of hydrogen leaks and mixes with the cabin air, that mixture will be explosive from anywhere between 4% and about 85% hydrogen.
You can't smell it or sense it in any other way. A few liters of the mixture could blow the glass out, a whole cabinfull would destroy other cars nearby.

It really isn't safe to carry a homemade hydrogen installation inside the cabin.

[RustyLugNut]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

but if a little bit of hydrogen leaks and mixes with the cabin air, that mixture will be explosive from anywhere between 4% and about 85% hydrogen.
You can't smell it or sense it in any other way. A few liters of the mixture could blow the glass out, a whole cabinfull would destroy other cars nearby.

It really isn't safe to carry a homemade hydrogen installation inside the cabin.

. . . it is difficult to achieve a combustible mixture short of a gross failure in the valving or piping. This is due to the rapid rate of diffusion and the fact that it is lighter than air by a large margin. A leak of several liters per second in a car cabin with nothing more than a window cracked open just about eliminates the possibility of reaching 4% for the lower flammability limit.

How do I know this? From personal experience. I work with hydrogen all the time. It's dangers are overblown much like nuclear "waste".