Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > EcoModding Central
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-21-2021, 11:16 AM   #31 (permalink)
Eco Rodder
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 105
Thanks: 25
Thanked 52 Times in 34 Posts
I just went on summitracing.com and there are 2000+ items listed with CARB EO numbers. Camshafts, carburetors, headers, cats, cat back systems, superchargers, CAI kits, computer chips and modules. Jegs had more than 1300+.
All perfectly legal for street legal, emissions compliant vehicles in the California.
So you can modify your car/truck for better performance or fuel economy and still be emissions compliant.
Also note this rule about ECM’s is not new. It’s been the law in California and the other (I believe) 20 states that follow California’s emission rules. The change is they're just now starting to check for the ECM mods. It won’t be long before those other states follow.

__________________
Worlds highest MPG LFX V6 powered 1966 Chevelle
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to 67-ls1 For This Useful Post:
JSH (07-21-2021)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 07-21-2021, 11:33 AM   #32 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,396

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,192
Thanked 4,380 Times in 3,354 Posts
I make the opposite prediction and figure DEQ testing will be a thing of the past in 15 years. Air quality has improved so much over the years, and EVs/hybrids are likely to be so commonplace in the future that DEQ testing will no longer be needed.

Oregon doesn't even have a statewide DEQ requirement, and I suspect it never will.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2021, 12:15 PM   #33 (permalink)
Eco Rodder
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 105
Thanks: 25
Thanked 52 Times in 34 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I make the opposite prediction and figure DEQ testing will be a thing of the past in 15 years. Air quality has improved so much over the years, and EVs/hybrids are likely to be so commonplace in the future that DEQ testing will no longer be needed.

Oregon doesn't even have a statewide DEQ requirement, and I suspect it never will.
Oregon follows California emission laws but does not test statewide. They do test biannually in Portland and Medford areas. It’s not 100% statewide in California either. There are few exempt counties.
Whether or not other states follow Californian in looking for ECM mods is still TBD.
__________________
Worlds highest MPG LFX V6 powered 1966 Chevelle
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2021, 02:13 PM   #34 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 3,481

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 306
Thanked 2,053 Times in 1,387 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
I make the opposite prediction and figure DEQ testing will be a thing of the past in 15 years. Air quality has improved so much over the years, and EVs/hybrids are likely to be so commonplace in the future that DEQ testing will no longer be needed.

Oregon doesn't even have a statewide DEQ requirement, and I suspect it never will.
No, Oregon doesn't have a state-wide DEQ requirement. Despite the commonly held belief that emission checks are federally mandated they are actually put in place by individual states as part of their individual plans to meet federal air quality standards in individual metro areas. Oregon has DEQ requirements in metro areas where they have air quality issues related to vehicle emissions.


I don't share your view that emission checks are going away. We have made some big gains since the 60's and 70's but recently we are basically treading water. Yes, cars are getting cleaner but metro areas are rapidly increasing in population. So far it has been about a wash.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2021, 02:52 PM   #35 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 3,481

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 306
Thanked 2,053 Times in 1,387 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
JSH: my Golf has lower compression than your avatar, and it makes less NOX comparatively for it's size.
Yes, a Golf pollutes less than a Class 8 truck. A Golf also doesn't need to pull 80,000 lbs.

Things haven't been static that the HD sector.

The NOx standard has decreased from 6.0 grams per brake horsepower hour in 1990 to 0.20 grams per brake horsepower hour standard in 2010. In 2024 it drops to 0.05 grams and then to 0.02 grams in 2027.

For PM, the standard decreased from 0.6 g/bhp-hr in 1990 to 0.01 g/bhp-hr in 2010. PM drops to 0.005 g/bhp-hr in 2024.

Expect to seem some interesting solutions to meet those standards

This why CARB is targeting HD trucks:



Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
Vw got stuck in a spot where they couldn't compete with gasoline powered NOX standards applied to their diesel engines instead of the appropriate diesel specs they were aiming for.
VW got stuck in a spot where they decided to cheat instead of meeting emissions requirements. Regulators around the world have stopped writing special emission rules for diesels. We have almost got to the point where there is one set of rules for all vehicles regardless of fuel type.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
The brouhaha ended with Cali giving them an exemption to "pollute" more in fewer cars. My golf emission is still cleaner than the same year suburu WRX.
That isn't quite how things work. Both CARB and EPA standards are base on fleet averages. Vehicles are certified into different bins (EPA) or tiers (CARB) based on their emission certifications. Then there is a fleet average that steadily tightens over time. So yes, CARB allows VW to make some Golf TDIs that are dirtier than average as long as they make enough other cars that are cleaner than average to make up for it. They do the same with Subaru and the WRX.

You can find way more info than you likely want here:
https://dieselnet.com/standards/#na
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JSH For This Useful Post:
mort (07-21-2021)
Old 07-21-2021, 03:31 PM   #36 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post


So it almost looks like checking obd2 tunes on cars is a waste of time.
Maybe go after heavy duty vehicles and stationary. Since HD is the biggest chunk and stationary are easy to watch.
Only a brain dead bureaucrat could look at the pie chart and be like, "lets go after that small slice and ignore all the bigger ones".

California has made some big gains since the 1960s, the top 7 spots for worst air quality in the nation. Now that's progress.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2021, 04:35 PM   #37 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,396

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,192
Thanked 4,380 Times in 3,354 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
So it almost looks like checking obd2 tunes on cars is a waste of time.
Has there ever been a study to determine the effectiveness of DEQ checks in the first place? What would be the pollution levels in a city without required DEQ testing vs with? Is the cost in both time and money worth whatever improvement in air quality is observed, or would there be better ways to improve air quality?

I wouldn't entirely be surprised if these questions were never asked.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2021, 04:53 PM   #38 (permalink)
JSH
AKA - Jason
 
JSH's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PDX
Posts: 3,481

Adventure Seeker - '04 Chevy Astro - Campervan
90 day: 17.3 mpg (US)
Thanks: 306
Thanked 2,053 Times in 1,387 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
So it almost looks like checking obd2 tunes on cars is a waste of time.
Maybe go after heavy duty vehicles and stationary. Since HD is the biggest chunk and stationary are easy to watch.
Only a brain dead bureaucrat could look at the pie chart and be like, "lets go after that small slice and ignore all the bigger ones".
You must have missed the part of my post where I mentioned the new CARB HD NOx regulations finalized last year that drop allowed HD NOx by 90%

CARB has an all of the above approach. Apparently they can walk and chew gum at the same time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
California has made some big gains since the 1960s, the top 7 spots for worst air quality in the nation. Now that's progress.
Looks like progress to me:


Air quality in California is MUCH better than it used to be. That doesn't mean more work isn't necessary.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2021, 05:23 PM   #39 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JSH View Post
You must have missed the part of my post where I mentioned the new CARB HD NOx regulations finalized last year that drop allowed HD NOx by 90%

CARB has an all of the above approach. Apparently they can walk and chew gum at the same time.



Looks like progress to me:


Air quality in California is MUCH better than it used to be. That doesn't mean more work isn't necessary.
Everyone else was just able to do it better, faster, more efficiently, with less money and without creating a clearly failed bureaucracy.
That's why they; California still owns the top 7 spots for worst in the country. 20 years ago I think they had the top 8 spots, so I guess that's something, not much, but good job any way (not really).
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-21-2021, 06:56 PM   #40 (permalink)
It's all about Diesel
 
cRiPpLe_rOoStEr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Porto Alegre, Rio Grande do Sul, Brazil
Posts: 12,548
Thanks: 0
Thanked 1,622 Times in 1,447 Posts
In the end it seems to be more about revenue than effectively decreasing emissions on souped-up engines, as it may not be impossible to keep emissions within the limits even resorting to parts which may not hold an EPA certification.

  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com