Certain subjects are immune to logic?

[Frank Lee]

Because many formally very nice spots, are now less nice.

In MN, I was in the boonies. The breeders even found my hiding spot there.

[Frank Lee]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

You also believed that population was growing exponentially.

That doesn't address the question.

[gone-ot]

...even an exponential "curve" can be viewed as being linear...if you expand the timescale enough (wink,wink)!

[Wonderboy]

I've been thinking about these "why would you do that" things and talking to people about them, and although I haven't come to a conclusion (I've learned never really to conclude so much as to gain as much perspective as possible), I've overcome the "logical" stumbling block of "why would they do that (in this case, why would someone be so selfish as to bring another life into a very bad living situation). People asking themselves why, should consider how lucky they were to get educated enough to recognize that this could be considered a selfish choice. I agree with Carlos (I assume we agree) that education is extremely important, and I consider it my very top issue - everything else could be solved with adequate education for EVERYONE. I'd venture to guess that the typical Haitian wasn't as well educated as the typical ecomodder member (the jury is out on that...), but seriously, think about that for a second, think about it for people anywhere, not just Haiti. What I've wanted to try to do since I've come to this realization is to try to build community where I live, and try to educate the people I come in contact with, hoping to lead by example and gain perspective on how to get me/us/all out of crappy situation X Y or Z.

Stop arguing (not that we are necessarily arguing here) and start educating. If you want to look deeper into issues we're touching on, I personally like Ran Prieur's attitude: How To Save Civilization

Pretty long, but we're a thoughtful, receptive bunch, aren't we?

Cheers!

P.S. Always consider the cultural/economic situation you were born of when making criticism - it's very difficult to be immune of this, and important to consider when one size never fits all.

[chuckm]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob

I'm all in favour of plant breeding for better yields. Our local economy is based on the work of schoolchildren who competed to select the very best wheat seeds for a tiny test plot. Direct genetic tinkering, however, is well known for reducing soy output by 10%, and high-fructose corn is widely implicated in health problems. The pollen from these varieties is destroying the option to farm organically. There is no more organic canola, for instance.

1) Since it is well known, could you help me find a source showing reduced soy output? 2) The jury is still out on high fructose corn syrup (versus sugar). There is no consensus in the scientific community, but the majority of the good studies show no adverse affects. 3) As to the organic argument, I'm not sure why this is a problem. The issue is more a product of how we define "organic" than it is with any known problems with GM foods. For example, a GM crop with yellow mosaic virus resistance cross-pollinates (a natural process) with an organic crop. Future generations of the "organic" crop now contain the GM resistance; is it therefore now non-organic? If it isn't, why? Is "organic" thus determined by a plant's genetics? If so, how is this different than using hybridized plant strains in organic crops?

[jamesqf]

[QUOTE=roflwaffle;164498What's with the whining anyway? If ya don't like sprawl, up and move to the boonies.[/QUOTE]

I did that, more than once. The sprawl followed me. (And the people already living in the boonies I moved to thought _I_ was the sprawl :-() Now where do I move to, considering that I don't have the few million it would take to buy a decent place in say Montana or Wyoming these days?

[jamesqf]

Originally Posted by roflwaffle

Maybe if people in this thread were all using ~50kWh/month of electricity, drove vehicles that averaged ~350mpg, and so on, then they would have a platform that was at least not riddled with hypocrisy...

So where exactly is the hypocrisy here? It would only be hypocritical if I claimed to believe in some form of extreme egalitarianism, which I don't. I just want the rest of the world to quit crapping on my space.

[thatguitarguy]

It looks like the title of this thread has been self-fulfilling. It becomes more and more disappointing.

[Bicycle Bob]

Originally Posted by chuckm

1) Since it is well known, could you help me find a source showing reduced soy output? 2) The jury is still out on high fructose corn syrup (versus sugar). There is no consensus in the scientific community, but the majority of the good studies show no adverse affects. 3) As to the organic argument, I'm not sure why this is a problem. The issue is more a product of how we define "organic" than it is with any known problems with GM foods. For example, a GM crop with yellow mosaic virus resistance cross-pollinates (a natural process) with an organic crop. Future generations of the "organic" crop now contain the GM resistance; is it therefore now non-organic? If it isn't, why? Is "organic" thus determined by a plant's genetics? If so, how is this different than using hybridized plant strains in organic crops?

If I track down my sources, do you promise to change your mind?

[gone-ot]

...which?

Certain subjects are immune to logic?

Certain logic is immune to subjects?

Certain immunities are logically subject?

...I'm sorta leaning toward the middle one (wink,wink)!