The climate change consensus extends beyond climate scientists

[oil pan 4]

My leaf gets about 2 miles to the pound of coal.
I'm pretty sure that's more than 100g of plant food per km.
Paying the EU fines sounds like a lose/lose situation, at least tesla will do something more creative with the money than fund failed social experiments.

[RedDevil]

It is meant as an incentive to make it worthwhile to make cars more fuel efficient, and to stimulate the production of emission free vehicles. FIAT can save hundreds of millions by adding EVs to its lineup. Maybe they will now.

[sendler]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

failed social experiments.

We are in a failed social experiment right now with neo-liberal global capitalism and growth based investment economic systems sloughing along toward the quickest payback on the latest frivolous item or endeavor. But just don't know it yet. We are already several decades into overshoot and there will be a collapse as our previously cornucopian nonrenewable resources begin to leave us.

[freebeard]

All too true.

“In the midst of chaos, there is also opportunity”

― Sun-Tzu, A Arte da Guerra

[oil pan 4]

Well then by that definition tesla and all these affordabe solar panels being made and reused are part of the same failed social experiment.

[freebeard]

Originally Posted by RedDevil

I have no idea what the EU would do with the fines, except for moving even more stuff back and forth between Brussels and Strasbourg each month.

If they were smart, they'd get the Boring Company to build out an Hyperloop.

[sendler]

Solar panels are a good step. Especially if we can design them to last for 100's of years. And there is still time to do a lot to ease the transition back down to a more sustainable level of existence if we could foresee that need and choose wisely. But a totally free market will not feel signals enough to make the correct choices until it is way too late and we are caught in an energy trap. I don't believe there are enough available resources remaining for us to realistically expect to continue building 100,000,000, 2,000 kg cars with 60kWh battery packs year after year until half of the then 9,000,000,000 people in the world have a functional luxury car. For example.
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And we are already caught in a debt trap where continued global growth at a higher rate than the interest on the debts is the only way to kick the can down the road.
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If we were smart we would realize this and use what we have left to build out things that we really need. Clean air, water, food, and warm housing and clothing. Without using up every last drop of carbon fuels and minerals that "they" are going to need 100,000 years from now.
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But the market drives almost blindly ever forward toward providing whatever will have the biggest payback over a time scale of a few years with no thought beyond that.
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And a free market will never again provide equity for labor vs the owners of production (Corporate share holders) until there is a shortage of labor (never).

[freebeard]

Solar panels are a good step. Especially if we can design them to last for 100's of years. And there is still time to do a lot to ease the transition back down to a more sustainable level of existence if we could foresee that need and choose wisely. But a totally free market will not feel signals enough to make the correct choices until it is way too late and we are caught in an energy trap.

Jack Rikard calls them magic rocks. The 'totally free market will not feel signals' part confuses me.

Suppose the downward transition means using bacteria to turn sand into sandstone. Then we are on a path to the geo-polymer technology that created the Megalithic Polygonal structures that confound us today.

But the market drives almost blindly ever forward toward providing whatever will have the biggest payback over a time scale of a few years with no thought beyond that.

Advertising makes it happen.

[All Darc]

I was wondering...

Let's supose in 60 years robots in the form of androids start to replace workers, replace 55% of labor, and with more 20 year androids with artificial intelligence reach the point to to be able replace nearly all workers.

How this would affect society?

Consider a future scenario like most ecologic problems solved or at least not get worse and consider battery technology way more eneregy denser than today and energy production not a big problem .

[freebeard]

I think you can divided those time spans by 10.

That is the big question, though. What do you think?