Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > General Efficiency Discussion
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 07-06-2020, 11:29 AM   #31 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Two things about these two projects:
1) The reporting on both essentially stops, or tells a story of a stalled project in recent years as they try to secure backers who never materialize, it seems. The major stumbling block for both in terms of moving forward to production and distribution is relations of power.
2) The OX seems designed by outsiders to Africa, and the Turtle by insiders, and yet they have some similar ideas in some respects, as you noted, freebeard.

Okay, a third point...

3) Noticing the production/distribution challenges the Turtle team seemed to pivot to a strategy of adapting to the hardware that already gets routinely dumped on Africa as waste by wealthier countries... they designed a chassis concept that could accept parts from the three most popular SUVs alreay on the streets of Ghana. Smart.

__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to California98Civic For This Useful Post:
freebeard (07-06-2020)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 07-06-2020, 03:33 PM   #32 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Elmira, NY
Posts: 1,781
Thanks: 319
Thanked 355 Times in 297 Posts
If anyone is interested I am working on streamlined cargo bikes with a bike shop in Ghana. I will post in the Alternative Transportation thread.
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Grant-53 For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (07-06-2020), freebeard (07-06-2020)
Old 07-06-2020, 04:11 PM   #33 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant-53 View Post
If anyone is interested I am working on streamlined cargo bikes with a bike shop in Ghana. I will post in the Alternative Transportation thread.
I am interested. For what it is worth, I have been there twice for a couple weeks each time (work releated research trips). I have friends and contacts there. Wanna learn more about what you are into. Very interested. I will check out the other thread.
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Old 07-07-2020, 11:20 AM   #34 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
I found the video displaying the CAD "three-way" or "all-in-one" chassis design. Basically, the chassis can accept parts from all three of the most common SUV vehicles in Ghana without modification (supposedly):
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 10:08 AM   #35 (permalink)
Somewhat crazed
 
Piotrsko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 1826 miles WSW of Normal
Posts: 4,043
Thanks: 462
Thanked 1,104 Times in 974 Posts
One would think that the mounting points for motor, trans and suspension are relatively similar. The frame on the Ranger has predrilled holes that remained the same for 20+ years regardless of powertrain options. Mounting brackets between the options/years vary.
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 11:12 AM   #36 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Piotrsko View Post
One would think that the mounting points for motor, trans and suspension are relatively similar. The frame on the Ranger has predrilled holes that remained the same for 20+ years regardless of powertrain options. Mounting brackets between the options/years vary.
Yeah. I would bet the information behind this CAD did not come from the Dutch artists who created it. The workers in the Suame Magazine in Ghana would have all this knowledge from constant reassembly of delapidated vehicles dumped into their salvage yards by wealthier countries. I like to to think the workers taught the artists. A good collaboration that needs funding to proceed, but there again are the relations of power engineered into the supply chains.
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Old 07-08-2020, 12:20 PM   #37 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,562
Thanks: 7,738
Thanked 8,554 Times in 7,041 Posts
Quote:
I would bet the information behind this CAD did not come from the Dutch artists who created it.... I like to to think the workers taught the artists. A good collaboration that needs funding to proceed, but there again are the relations of power engineered into the supply chains.
Graphics technician. The only art involved was picking the colors. I'm sure the Dutch had some input, even if it's only cheer-leading.

'Power' or relations of facilitation?
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (07-13-2020)
Old 07-13-2020, 11:47 AM   #38 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
... 'Power' or relations of facilitation?
I understand why you would ask the question, and I like to think in terms of facilitation, too, as an alternative to command or domination. But the distinction assumes there is a fascilitation that would be free of interpersonal power. It's really almost impossible to have such a strong distinction, especially in situations of really significant power differences. Those workers in the Suame Magazine have an autonomy that is attractive (though it comes with dangerous working conditions and poverty). But when wealthy Dutch filmmakers and designers show up talking about developing an African car and promoting it to other even wealthier people in Europe, these workers will turn their attention to the project. Facilitation therefore can no more escape the context of power than could efforts to command the labor directly. See what I mean?

A question I would have for these Dutch artists: were the workers in the Suame Magazine paid for developing and building the car? Depending on the answer, I would have followups... most importantly, how did the SMATI Turtle project develop? What are the details of the story?

I think a cooperative collaborative formal company with such workers that would return big benefits to them if successful would be cool. That does not seem to be what happened here[, but I think it would have been better "critical engineering" practice].
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2020, 01:25 PM   #39 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,562
Thanks: 7,738
Thanked 8,554 Times in 7,041 Posts
Quote:
But the distinction assumes there is a fascilitation that would be free of interpersonal power. It's really almost impossible to have such a strong distinction, especially in situations of really significant power differences.
That's why in minarchist or [small-L] libertarian systems enforcing contracts is one of the three necessary functions.

The first time I tried to form a business with other people, we chose Cooperative over Corporation or Partnership (the fourth form is Sole Proprietor). It fell apart over power tripping among equals.
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-17-2020, 12:47 AM   #40 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
... The first time I tried to form a business with other people, we chose Cooperative over Corporation or Partnership (the fourth form is Sole Proprietor). It fell apart over power tripping among equals.
Such power tripping can happen in almost any startup enterprise. It is common for new private schools to struggle horribly within five years over internal disagreements as to authority, direction, and curriculum. Plenty of business partners in startup corps don't end up getting along, either, and somebody gets forced out. Meanwhile there are also examples of long-term successful worker-owned cooperatives around the world. Some of the most notable would be the Mondragon Corporation in Spain, the Brukman Factory in Argentina, and the Edinburgh Bicycle Cooperative. But I don't see any shame if a coop disbands after some years ...when it's time to move on... move on.

Buckminster Fuller was part of the Black Mountain College in North Carolina. That school was owned by the faculty and run democratically: Black Mountain College: A Brief Introduction - Black Mountain College Museum + Arts Center ...he taught students for a while... hd them build an early version of his domes...

This EM site has cooperative aspects: we all make the content quite equally, though we don't own it. We do some pretty good "critical engineering" around here, even if it is all low-tech hacking.

Wikipedia is a version of that open democratic cooperative enterprise, too... not "worker owned cooperatives" but so what. Wikipedia is great "critical engineering" in that its "workers" have learned not just subject matter but about hacking "encyclopedia." They have reinvented editing and its all free and open to all. Over the years, the quality of wikipedia's content has improved greatly. It is a go to source and not a bad one.

__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com