Did Shouty make a good summary of electric vehicle history?

[redpoint5]

I'd trust my car with Shouty.

When I want to learn something though, I watch Eric or someone else. I'm not looking to be entertained, but informed. If I were looking to be entertained, it wouldn't be Shouty. Probably car wreck videos or heavy equipment fails.

[freebeard]

If I were looking to be entertained, it wouldn't be Shouty.

Oh, oh.... threadjack!

3-steps to Whole-House EMP Protection

MAS-36: The Backup Rifle is Called to Action

YARN HUB

Raumpatrouille Orion

Era Ameno Lyrics

[jakobnev]

He went full clickbait?

Classic Shouty Klickbait.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I didn't say that batteries aren't improving, or that there aren't advantages, only that there are serious reasons why EVs aren't dominant, and why now is not the right time to buy for most consumers.

4.2% global sales is still weak, especially in light of the many market distortions required to achieve those numbers.

Haven't clicked any of the 3 links yet, and not sure I will. Listening to a most excellent discussion on Darkhorse at the moment.

I think we are just starting to see the point were EVs and PHEVs will take off and the EU will spearhead that change. Automakers have to at least double plug-in sales in the EU to avoid CO2 fines. (In 2020 EVs counted twice in the average but they will only count once from 2021 on)

The fuel economy standards driving EV growth aren't going away and are only getting more strict in the majority of the world.

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by JSH

I think we are just starting to see the point were EVs and PHEVs will take off and the EU will spearhead that change. Automakers have to at least double plug-in sales in the EU to avoid CO2 fines. (In 2020 EVs counted twice in the average but they will only count once from 2021 on)

The fuel economy standards driving EV growth aren't going away and are only getting more strict in the majority of the world.

We're saying the similar things, just from different ends of the optimism/pessimism spectrum.

I've been excited about EVs since the 90's (and built that electric car in HS), so that's a long time to maintain excitement.

I believe we're nearing the end of the "Innovators" phase and entering the "Early Adopters" phase.

While everyone on EV forums get excited about new models that are sold in tiny numbers in select markets, I've been maintaining that Toyota is my indicator of when to get excited. Toyota is announcing new EV models, so time to allow for some excitement.

[freebeard]

I've been maintaining that Toyota is my indicator of when to get excited.

For me it's when Arcimoto has a billion-dollar market capitalization.

[Xist]

I feel like Toyota is the car to have as a daily driver so that you can afford fun weekend car.

Is the Archie the closest thing to an EV for poor people?

There are lots of us!

Which would be easier, saving to buy a house, or making payments in a Certified used EV?

What is the ROI for 5 years?

Thirty?

[redpoint5]

Easier?

Easier to let money sit in a bank account that was direct deposited, but not much harder to have money automatically withdrawn on a car payment.

Better is the option that satisfies the most critical needs at the moment while maximizing financial standing in the future. Austerity today for a carefree tomorrow.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

We're saying the similar things, just from different ends of the optimism/pessimism spectrum.

I've been excited about EVs since the 90's (and built that electric car in HS), so that's a long time to maintain excitement.

I believe we're nearing the end of the "Innovators" phase and entering the "Early Adopters" phase.

While everyone on EV forums get excited about new models that are sold in tiny numbers in select markets, I've been maintaining that Toyota is my indicator of when to get excited. Toyota is announcing new EV models, so time to allow for some excitement.

I would consider myself in the middle on the optimist / pessimist scale. I think the big movements in the market will happen towards the middle to end of the decade. I also expect the USA to lag the rest of the world by 5 - 10 years.

Toyota is a good indicator. They haven't been the most profitable automaker for years (maybe decades) by misreading the market. It is looking like 2023 - 2025 is going to be the time frame automakers start getting serious about selling EVs.

Originally Posted by Xist

Is the Archie the closest thing to an EV for poor people?

A used EV is the EV for the poor. There are plenty of low mileage first generation EVs in the $5,000 - $10,000 range.

[freebeard]

The FUV, et al, is the new electric vehicle for the masses. It's like the VW convertible (in light blue, please), a vehicle that transcends class distinctions. For the rich it's a golf cart, for the poor it's a last-mile-gig money machine.

Better is the option that satisfies the most critical needs at the moment while maximizing financial standing in the future.

I've been listening to Max Keiser on Bitcoin again. Apparently Nigeria is leading the uptake on Bitcoin; they see it as a Universal Translator. They're five year ahead of the USofA, turning gas they used to flare off at wellheads into BTC, bypassing the extraction industry and fiat currency completely.

ROI on the house would depend on whether it's a solar heated geodesic dome with radiant floor heat.