Dreaming...lean burn manual taller transmission Civic sedan...or get an Insight

[Ecky]

Daox printed my shift knob. Natalya can provide the circuit board for feeding the ECU a 2mph signal; I think there's a post in the For Sale section on here. The clutch and brake switch mods are dead simple but if you need help, there are good guides on InsightCentral.

Toyota hybrid batteries discharge just the same, and it can cause imbalance in Toyotas too. It's also easier on the batteries to very gradually bring them back up to operating range. You don't physically damage the battery by letting it sit, but rather, by bringing it back into operation abruptly. PLUS, if a Prius battery drains, the car is dead weight and can't be driven. Honda hybrids, for all of their battery woes, can actually be driven without them.

That grid charger will work fine. Or, I could assemble one for less. I can easily option in a discharger option... helps some failing batteries, not others. I don't see anything wrong with the MaxxVolts option.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Daox printed my shift knob. Natalya can provide the circuit board for feeding the ECU a 2mph signal; I think there's a post in the For Sale section on here. The clutch and brake switch mods are dead simple but if you need help, there are good guides on InsightCentral.

Found the thread for Daox's shift knob (link here for my own future personal reference) - is he still active on here and responding to PMs for orders?

Can't seem to find a thread on the fake-2mph circuit board thingy.

Is this thread what you used for the regen button, save using the connections to the button on Daox's shift knob?

Clutch one, not sure if I found the right one or not, is this it?

Originally Posted by Ecky

Toyota hybrid batteries discharge just the same, and it can cause imbalance in Toyotas too. It's also easier on the batteries to very gradually bring them back up to operating range. You don't physically damage the battery by letting it sit, but rather, by bringing it back into operation abruptly. PLUS, if a Prius battery drains, the car is dead weight and can't be driven. Honda hybrids, for all of their battery woes, can actually be driven without them.

So let it be, and then plug it into a grid charger when I'm about to start driving it again?

Originally Posted by Ecky

That grid charger will work fine. Or, I could assemble one for less. I can easily option in a discharger option... helps some failing batteries, not others. I don't see anything wrong with the MaxxVolts option.

Well I know I couldn't assemble one for any cost

[Ecky]

Daox is still around.

Natalya's thread: https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthre...ght-34014.html

This one you linked is correct for both brake and clutch switch: https://www.insightcentral.net/forum...-walkthru.html

^ How it works is basically that there's a button on the brake and clutch which are activated when you press these. You can add a parallel button which lets you do it manually without having the hold the pedal in.

And, that's correct on how to take care of the battery - to my knowledge.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Ty! Is Natalya still around though? I hadn't even seen their posts before, while I have seen Daox post every now and then. How simple is that to wire up? Looks complicated.

The other two sound simple enough, if I can figure out how to add parallels and stuff, and connect it to Daox's shift knob - I'm assuming his knob comes with wires for hooking up stuff for the buttons?

Also, if I'm doing EOC using those two buttons, can I use the regen button too?

Good, I'll remember that. Long periods of not driving are the main reason why I didn't want something with a hybrid battery.

[Ecky]

Natalya's still around. I personally don't think it's hard to wire up, but my standards are different. You'll probably learn a lot doing it.

Not sure if Daox's knob comes with wires. If it did, I removed them and soldered on different wires.

One arguable weakness of Honda's hybrids is that the electric motor is physically attached to the car's crankshaft. So, if you shift the engine into neutral, you also disconnect the electric motor from the wheels, and can't get regen. A Prius can shut the engine off and both regen and accelerate (very slowly) using just the motor. There were a lot of cases where I just slowed down in gear to recapture energy where in other cars I would have shut the engine off and slowed down in neutral.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

That's true. My electrical experience is limited to working on PCs. But I like learning and MPGs, so I'm game.

What if I pushed the 2mph button and then regen, would it shut the engine off in gear and then give me regen?

How long does the battery usually last without regen?

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

What if I pushed the 2mph button and then regen, would it shut the engine off in gear and then give me regen?

Don't need to press the button. When you let off the gas in gear in a manual, it cuts off fuel to the engine.

Only problem is that you also have drag from spinning the engine. Sometimes that's an advantage though, when you're actually trying to come to a stop.

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

How long does the battery usually last without regen?

That's the only place it gets charge from, really. You never plug it in, you have to regen as much as you use with assist. If you never use assist, you'll basically never have to regen - though regenerated energy is where most electricity used to power headlights and computers and whatever.

Assist is nice in that you can keep the engine at lower RPMs for a given amount of acceleration. It's very possible to keep the tiny 1L below ~1500rpm most of the time and keep up with traffic with hybrid assist.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by Ecky

Don't need to press the button. When you let off the gas in gear in a manual, it cuts off fuel to the engine.

Only problem is that you also have drag from spinning the engine. Sometimes that's an advantage though, when you're actually trying to come to a stop.

Oh, duh, yeah, I forgot about that.

Originally Posted by Ecky

That's the only place it gets charge from, really. You never plug it in, you have to regen as much as you use with assist. If you never use assist, you'll basically never have to regen - though regenerated energy is where most electricity used to power headlights and computers and whatever.

Assist is nice in that you can keep the engine at lower RPMs for a given amount of acceleration. It's very possible to keep the tiny 1L below ~1500rpm most of the time and keep up with traffic with hybrid assist.

The Insight doesn't have an EV mode though, right? I was thinking like if I didn't use regen but instead maximized EOC coasting ability, I could just plug the battery into the grid charger to recharge.

[Ecky]

Originally Posted by mpg_numbers_guy

The Insight doesn't have an EV mode though, right? I was thinking like if I didn't use regen but instead maximized EOC coasting ability, I could just plug the battery into the grid charger to recharge.

Would that it worked that way.

One issue with NiMH batteries is that you can't measure how much energy is in them. At all. The voltage is basically the same when they're full and empty, unlike lithium or lead-acid which have voltage proportional to their charge state. In order to keep track of what's in the battery, the Insight's computer records how much you put in every time you regen, and records how much goes out every time you assist. It does this very accurately, and can sometimes keep accurate track for years without a recalibration, especially if the battery is good. But, if you charge the battery from outside, the computer won't know it. It can recalibrate once the battery hits 100% and it detects voltage rising rapidly and the cells heating up - this is, in fact, what it does after you grid charge - but it will greatly reduce the battery's lifespan if you do this every day. Most opt for 1-3x per year. It's the lesser evil than letting the cells get out of balance.

Now, there IS a group working on an inexpensive lithium replacement over on IC. Chances are good they'll take Nissan Leaf packs and split them up, so they're a fraction of the price of the Insight's NiMH pack but with more capacity and less weight. They're working on a good battery management system right now, and on reverse-engineering the Insight's computers. You could grid charge one of those every night.

Alternately, you could just turn the hybrid system's regen and assist functions off, only using it to silently restart the engine, and EoC everywhere. However, you'll generally get much better economy if you capture as much of your forward momentum as possible when slowing down, and then use that energy again to get you back up to speed, rather than turning it into brake dust every time. Many Insight owners' original brake pads last the life of the car.

EDIT: So, with an Insight, the game changes from "how much can I keep the engine off" to "how much energy can I recapture when I have to slow down".

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Very educational, thank you!

I'll have to keep an eye on that lithium replacement; are they still actively working on it?

So like coming down a steep hill, should I EOC and gain speed, or use regen braking to maintain same speed? And coming to a stop should I EOC as far away as possible, or wait, use a little more gas, and regen?