I.C.E./B.E.V price parity today?

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Daschicken

Only if you have a plug in/full EV AND have enough range to get where you are going, which you probably do.

I used to see a TON of G1 nissan leaves around, almost none of them out and about now, not sure where they went.

Parts list is kind of vague, but it appears that a 2011 leaf battery is $5790.

Georgia exports a lot of used BEVs, Wisconsinites used to buy them before the big BEV market collapse here.

A very large percentage of used and wrecked BEVs get exported, which is quite unfortunate for US but I guess good for countries that don’t get BEVs natively.

What sucks is that practice removes spare car parts and jacks up used car prices. Some car models have very high rates of export and honestly its a big problem .

[Daschicken]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

Georgia exports a lot of used BEVs, Wisconsinites used to buy them before the big BEV market collapse here.

A very large percentage of used and wrecked BEVs get exported, which is quite unfortunate for US but I guess good for countries that don’t get BEVs natively.

What sucks is that practice removes spare car parts and jacks up used car prices. Some car models have very high rates of export and honestly its a big problem .

Having experienced the desire for non domestically sold vehicles, I feel their plight. At least they are able to import them. 25 year import rule here in the U.S. if it wasn't certified for safety and emissions.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Daschicken

HOLY ****

A new battery for the 2019 Kona is THIRTY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS.

https://www.hyundaioempartsdirect.co...ystem--battery

For better or for worse, I predict a lot of these electric cars will have much shorter cradle to grave lifespans than a typical gas/hybrid. More new technology on the road, sure, but at what point is short life more wasteful than longer life lower efficiency?

I used to see a TON of G1 nissan leaves around, almost none of them out and about now, not sure where they went.

Parts list is kind of vague, but it appears that a 2011 leaf battery is $5790.

There are positives and negatives with going with an advanced actively temperature controlled battery. The positive is that the battery lasts a lot longer especially if you do a lot of DC fast charging. The negative is that a more advanced battery costs more.

I'm sure a lot of that difference is volume related. Nissan has sold 300K 1st Gen Leafs and made one replacement pack that fits them all.


Lets say an EV battery only lasts the 100K miles it is warrantied for.

2020 Mini Signature is $26400
It looks like a 10 year old Mini is worth about $5000 so that is $21,400 in depreciation.
100,000 / 31 mpg X $2.50 = $8064 for gas
$430 for a maintenance every 12 months = $4,300

$21,400 + $8064 + $4300 = $33,764 over 10 years / 100K miles


A Mini EV signature is $30,000
We'll say it is worth $0 at the end of 10 years
It is rated at 3.25 miles per KWh so that is 100K / 3.25 x 0.12 = $3692 for electricity.
$100 for a new cabin air filter every 20K miles

So $30,000 + $3692 + $100 = $33,792

So the EV still breaks even with the gasser without any subsidies and assuming gas stays cheap and the EV isn't even worth scrap value at the end of 10 years.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by Daschicken

Having experienced the desire for non domestically sold vehicles, I feel their plight. At least they are able to import them. 25 year import rule here in the U.S. if it wasn't certified for safety and emissions.

In the case of the USA empty cargo vessel export crisis that spurred this fundamental change of rip off prices in the used car market around 2009
I honestly believe they should jack up export taxes to the buyer especially on high value cars under 4 years old.

The salvage market getting MSRP on certain junked cars needs to be nipped in the bud, a progressive tax on export cars would make it more economical to keep newer used cars in our home market.

This vacuum of the less desirable “newer” used cars makes it harder on everyday people to obtain and maintain a car.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

When I ask how hybrids are overtaxed, I'm not asking in comparison to other countries, I'm asking in comparison to the utilization of public infrastructure with respect to the amount of funds paid to maintain that infrastructure here in the US, or specifically in each state.

Sometimes the perceived lack of revenue from a lower usage of road-taxed fuel might be compensated for lower expenses on public healthcare. Well, it's nearly impossible to expect me to look at this point under the very same perspective of someone who lives in the United States, even though I understand what you consider reasonable.

[aerohead]

Originally Posted by Daschicken

Only if you have a plug in/full EV AND have enough range to get where you are going, which you probably do. Probably. And a house with charging capabilities.



Very important to actually list those gas prices, are those california prices, or rest of the country prices? Pre or current pandemic prices? And of course, it is difficult to figure out what will last how long, but the electric will likely need a new battery around the 10-12 year mark.

The 1.6T kona limited is $8.87 per pound. I can see comparing the Type R to the model 3, but not sure why you didn't include the gas too.


HOLY ****

A new battery for the 2019 Kona is THIRTY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS.

https://www.hyundaioempartsdirect.co...ystem--battery

For better or for worse, I predict a lot of these electric cars will have much shorter cradle to grave lifespans than a typical gas/hybrid. More new technology on the road, sure, but at what point is short life more wasteful than longer life lower efficiency?

I used to see a TON of G1 nissan leaves around, almost none of them out and about now, not sure where they went.

Parts list is kind of vague, but it appears that a 2011 leaf battery is $5790.

The price can be reverse-engineered from the conditions of the thread mentioned,which was stated to be a constant over the life of the comparison.

[cRiPpLe_rOoStEr]

Considering the economic viability of replacing a conventional automatic transmission with an HSD system as Toyota is doing on some of its models, to the point of doing a full-hybrid approach to some models including the Lexus range on many markets, it seems quite easy to make an off-the-shelf EV powertrain. The space saved from the eventual absence of an ICE could be repurposed for a pack of batteries.

The fact that some 48-volt alternator-starters fitted to modern BAS-Hybrid vehicles having more torque than mid-size Euro cars such as the Opel Vectra A used to have about 30 years ago, and across a broader peak torque RPM, is also noticeable.



Now taking as an example the Suzuki S-Cross, even though the power rating for the ISG alternator-starter while serving as an auxiliary motor might seem negligible, it's worth to notice most vehicles don't need more than 15 or 20 horsepower to retain a constant speed even on road traffic, then with the available CVT a full-electric version relying mostly on parts already available could be eventually realistic and decrease development and manufacturing cost.



Even though EVs are not really my cup of tea, I believe it's not rocket-science to provide a more affordable approach for those who are comfortable enough to get rid of the ICE.

[gasstingy]

Here in Alabama, this year the base tax charge on my BoltEV increased by $200.00! I was shocked / dismayed by that. Then, I found out from family that their hybrid Kia Kona (non-plug) went up $100.00.

Easy to see the tax desperation from our politicians. I think it is done on purpose so they can try to run the EV off the market. I think it is likely being pushed by the petroleum industry, new-car dealer lobby and possibly auto repair market interests.

As for road taxes, when we have a need for matching funds for federal government money for road maintenance / construction, they raise the sales tax, so that road infrastructure claim doesn't really set to well with me. All that said, I really, really like how my car drives and don't plan to go back to a gas burner as a daily driver.

[MeteorGray]

Logic dictates that electric vehicle owners will have to pay their fair share of road construction, upkeep and repairs that they utilize. This also applies to the heavy investments in electric system generation, transmission and distribution equipment that will be needed if electric vehicles eventually take a significant portion of the transportation market.

No free lunches, despite what a politician might tell us.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by cRiPpLe_rOoStEr

The fact that some 48-volt alternator-starters fitted to modern BAS-Hybrid vehicles having more torque than mid-size Euro cars such as the Opel Vectra A used to have about 30 years ago, and across a broader peak torque RPM, is also noticeable.

Even though EVs are not really my cup of tea, I believe it's not rocket-science to provide a more affordable approach for those who are comfortable enough to get rid of the ICE.

The Prius Prime has a one way clutch to the gasser.

In my mind the Honda IMA concept could be wound to any voltage and shouldn’t be more expensive than a starter+alternator on a standard car.

Using the Primes antique one way clutch (that allows for EV or gas operations by clutching in or out)

You would think the IMA+ one way clutch could be the most easily implemented at the factory of them all and provide silent EV operation or even manual transmission EV operation, unfortunate they never went the next step further

Originally Posted by MeteorGray

Logic dictates that electric vehicle owners will have to pay their fair share of road construction, upkeep and repairs that they utilize. This also applies to the heavy investments in electric system generation, transmission and distribution equipment that will be needed if electric vehicles eventually take a significant portion of the transportation market.

No free lunches, despite what a politician might tell us.

My Honda Insight uses $200 of gas a year, why would a BEV that is more effectient pay more road taxes than my car uses in fuel annually when a BEV already pays 30% tax on the electric bill anyway?

If BEVs were to become the only vehicle and further if the trend is for few
people to own a car at all and just rideshare
registration fees will become meaningless/ineffective
and should be eliminated on individuals altogether and replaced by simply manipulating the
Municipal Substation Taxes that are already stealthily charged to the utility on every kwhr produced in the country anyway.

The cost of collecting annual plate fees is already very high and many poorer people simply don’t pay for plates when they get expensive, my uncle ran without plates for at least 10 years because “it was too expensive “