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Old 07-21-2013, 10:27 AM   #31 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cujet View Post

Problem with all of this: I have NO RECOURSE and NO METHOD to correct improper information.
And they have no legal obligation to correct it , even if they are aware of the problem.

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Old 07-22-2013, 01:39 AM   #32 (permalink)
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cujet,

We're too far removed from the age of travel by horseback, warring with flintlocks, and messaging by quill pen to be living under a static Constitution. The courts have had to adjudicate the constitutionality of telephone eavesdropping, car searches, GPS tracking, immigration stops, and dozens of other Fourth Amendment questions. They've got Facebook bullying cases in the pipeline. The results are far from perfect, but they're what we have to live by. Like it or not, "SCOTUS says so" is our standard for constitutionality. Like it or not, immigration checkpoints are constitutional, despite your denials.

The Constitution is a plain language document, and it's nice to imagine living in such an ideal America. Unfortunately, I don't think any of the Founding Fathers imagined multiple courtrooms in every county of every state litigating 8 hours/day, 5 days/week, 52 weeks/year for 230+ years to produce the abomination that's our current living Constitution. We can thank (or blame) an overabundance of lawyers and our own litigious society for that. The only way your plan language legal system will work is if we outlaw progress and we all get along, and I guarantee you that will never happen.

Once upon a time, we could probably ride a horse to the next town with some reasonable expectation of privacy, but now we live in a world where felons with Uzis and MAC-10s gun down cops from inside tinted windows of SUVs. The license plate readers and database technology that prompted this thread didn't exist 10 years ago. While Frank and others would love to forbid them, they needn't bother, because they will be obsolete and replaced by something like NFC parking meters, OBDIII, or OEM GPS systems that will make Onstar look like a horse-drawn buggy. You can bet that both government and business interests want to know your shopping habits, gas-purchasing habits, and how often you visit your girlfriend. They know they can't get those data legally by snooping, so they'll get them via an extension of the PATRIOT Act, or something similar.

What is DHS' justification for random searches of private aircraft? I"m sure you didn't just consent to such an unconstitutional search.
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Last edited by SentraSE-R; 07-22-2013 at 08:43 AM..
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Old 07-23-2013, 08:08 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Case law related to warrantless motor vehicle searches.
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:05 PM   #34 (permalink)
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What bothers me is that some people think it's ok for the America be turned into Nazi Germany lol. Wake up and listen to what you are saying lol. They had weapons and crime 1000 years ago and will have it 1000 years from now too. Look at Nazi Germany, they put all the Jews in camps, Americans are next. Cops are getting gun down cops from tinted window SUVs??????? There are more innocent people getting gun down by cops every day for no reason than cops by "felons in SUVs with tinted windows"..................Wake up and hear the bs that you're saying lol. The law should apply to everyone equally, cops murder people on daily basis without any reasonable suspicion let alone probable cause and all they get is paid leave????
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Old 07-24-2013, 03:23 PM   #35 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cujet View Post
I disagree.

First and foremost, buzz phrases like "no expectation of privacy" have no constitutional basis and are simply an end run around Constitutional freedoms

Second, a government dossier on each and every citizen, er, subject, is 100% unconstitutional. And a very, very similar tactic used by the nearly endless list of failed authoritarian governments.

Third, warantless tracking of individuals with onboard GPS has been ruled unconstitutional. Why would tracking individuals with other means be any different.

As Americans, we have every expectation of going where we want, when we want, and it's nobody's business where or why. So that famous statement above is stunningly flawed.
Disagree all you want, but you obviously don't live near the Mexican border. The border patrol agents here feel that they have every rite to that information, and if you inform them of your rites you get pulled over for a 45 minute cool down.

They have also installed facial recognition equipment on both sides of the freeway with IR and color cameras at the check points.
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Old 07-25-2013, 11:43 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Godwin's Law. I claim the pot.
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Old 08-12-2013, 02:49 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Wednesday in Sacramento, I saw the Amber alert for the blue Nissan Versa involved with the abduction of San Diego teen Hannah Anderson, who was rescued Saturday.

Big Brother tracked Hannah and her abductor, James DiMaggio, via cell phone calls, credit card purchases, and toll bridge photos to Idaho even before the horseback riders found them.
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Have you ever noticed that anybody driving slower than you is an idiot, and anyone going faster than you is a maniac? George Carlin
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Best flat drive 94.5 mpg for 10.1 mi
Longest tank 1033 km (642 mi) on 10.56 gal = 60.8 mpg
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:19 AM   #38 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEnemy View Post
Disagree all you want, but you obviously don't live near the Mexican border. The border patrol agents here feel that they have every rite to that information, and if you inform them of your rites you get pulled over for a 45 minute cool down.

They have also installed facial recognition equipment on both sides of the freeway with IR and color cameras at the check points.
Just waited nearly an hour, on RT-8, West of San Diego in a checkpoint up in the mountains. I did not roll down my window, I had a clearly visible camera recording the event and camera located out of plain sight. The Border Patrol agent (er, jack booted thug) peered into my car, instantly saw my video camera and waved me on my way, as expected.

Since I was in an empty Hertz, rental car, and alone, I was ready to leave it there, while they got a warrant to search it. It would then be Hertz's problem.

Spoke with my friends in DHS about this. The response was that many in DHS understand it's a clear violation of the 4th and they don't want to engage in many court cases. As sooner or later, they believe a judge will find in favor of a liberal interpretation of the US Constitution, and the tactics used by DHS will be severely curtailed. Rendering them less effective.

Thinking about DHS "Dave's" statement, I can see the point, they feel that the ends justify the means. Even if it's a clear violation of the plain language meaning of the constitution and case law.
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Old 08-12-2013, 08:36 AM   #39 (permalink)
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It's rare (more likely nonexistant) when you see a beaurocrat, regardless of his-her title, treating a citizen to a standard HIGHER than is Constitutionally required. Especially with the most recent administration (but certainly not limitied to this administration) the philosophy seems to be "stomp on our rights", since it will take years for the "victims" to get a court to declare our actions a violation of law, and we (the stomping beaurocrat) don't have to worry about legal action directed at us individually.
After an extended battle with the IRS, and the time, effort , and expense (personally) of proving them wrong TWICE, Congress made a change in the law that allowed an individual to sue the IRS, but of course no the individual who initiated the illegal abuse.
Maybe next time. Why should any beaurocrat be insulated from their own arrogant and illegal actions. No one in private industry has that right.
In my 3 legal entanglements (2 invoulentary one voulentary-getting a patent), in all 3 I saw incompetence of astounding proportions and refusal to even look at the problem (they caused) with any kind or rationality that would have solved it instantly. Instead it became a drawn out process, where I can only assume, the responsible party thought I would just give up and go away, instead of standing up for my rights.

They were all wrong.

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Old 08-12-2013, 09:21 AM   #40 (permalink)
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Being in the military for several years, I have seen laziness and incompetence in extreme measures. If you ask for something at the wrong desk, you get a not my problem line and zero help from there. People never update their call rosters, so you routinely get the run around because of outdated information.

Several months ago my wife had to get a 3 hour gestational diabetes screening at the army hospital. The doctor called her on friday evening, so she called over to labs on monday. Confirmed she could do it, then called her doctor back. Day of the test which was her day off, she wakes up at 0500, gets our 19 month old ready and drops her off at daycare, drives onto post during peak hours (which I refer to as the death drive at 5), gets to the lab department and the female dog at the desk looks at the computer and says "can't help you." So my wife, in the 3rd trimester, calls me, very emotional and tells me that there was no supervisor on duty yet to complain to. So I call over to labs and by sheer aggression, I get dumped on the supervisor's line in less than 30 seconds. I am very glad that I did not go to her appointment that day, it wouldn't have been pretty.

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