Nissan Leaf

[user removed]

LOL, we talked about it, it was 25 years ago 11/4/14. I had just paid off most of $40k in debt, in 12 months, on the business and bought a 1990 D21 Hardbody 4X4 truck, that Nissan had on a special deal for $9999 new, with a manual trans, AC and a radio, but, not much else. It was a regular cab, white, with a red cloth interior.

Business depreciation.

When I met her I was living in the shop, showering at a health club and sleeping with an electric blanket in an unheated building with practically no insulation. First years taxable income was $1800 for 3k hours work. Debt eliminated in 18 months. She told me I could stay at her place and we got married 6 months later. We were next door neighbors when we were teenagers, over 20 years before we got married.

Sold the truck and started rebuilding totalled Sentras and Altimas after fixing up this.

regards
mech

[NeilBlanchard]

We need to get more EV's with energy logs - I have the top spot - of an active driver - all to myself! :-)

[P-hack]

well, aside from using the seat warmers instead of the cabin heater, I'm probably gonna be the guy with the EV plates showing the townsfolk what it can do at every stoplight, so don't count on me for an efficiency competition.

Did some more figuring:
energy wise, 1 gal gasoline is 33kwh, an ICE is maybe %33 efficient though, so @$0.10/kwh vs $2/gal is more like $3.3 for 33kwh vs $6.66/gallon usable, or something like that.

Flooring it doesn't seem to affect range too bad as long as you stay off the brakes and only regen when you have to (I shift to neutral when I'm going fast enough, with the throttle still on the floor), it is still very much pulse and glide. Avoiding complete stops seems to be the most helpful.

[Hypermiler1995]

[QUOTE=P-hack;462535]well, aside from using the seat warmers instead of the cabin heater, I'm probably gonna be the guy with the EV plates showing the townsfolk what it can do at every stoplight, so don't count on me for an efficiency competition.

Post a fuel log anyway, we need something to fill up the top ten!

Edit: do you realize you have like the only prius with a hood scoop?

[Hypermiler1995]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

That car has to be one of the most BEAUTIFUL cars in existence!

[redpoint5]

I ran 20 different cars through my vehicle cost of ownership spreadsheet and the results are interesting. I assumed a 10 year ownership, and for the most part held variables like registration, maintenance, and insurance consistent. The variables I customized for each vehicle was purchase price, sell price, and fuel economy.

Out of 20 vehicles, by far the cheapest to own for 10 years is a 2001 Honda Insight - manual gearbox. It has a 10 year cost of $14,600. Interestingly, a 2000 Nissan Sentra or 2005 Toyota Corolla is in the middle of the pack at $23,000 for 10 years of ownership. The 2011 Nissan Leaf SV came in as the 2nd cheapest car to own at $18,500.

Even driving a cheap old beater that gets relatively good gas mileage won't save you money over 10 years of driving compared to a 2011 Leaf.

Of course, this all assumes things such as my low cost of maintenance, electric rates, etc. Your costs of ownership will be different, but should still favor a used EV. If you don't believe me, run the numbers yourself.

20 cars compared. Sorted from lowest cost of ownership to highest.
Model - Year - Purchase Price - 10 Year Cost
Insight Manual 2001 $3,000.00 $14,600.00
Leaf SV 2011 $12,200.00 $18,500.00
Jetta TDI Wagon 2003 $4,842.00 $20,000.00
Golf TDI 2003 $5,250.00 $20,300.00
Prius Pkg3 2007 $7,070.00 $21,522.00
Leaf SL 2013 $19,161.00 $21,991.00
Sentra 2000 $1,200.00 $23,100.00
Corolla 2005 $4,800.00 $23,100.00
Prius Pkg3 2010 $13,354.00 $25,082.00
C-max 2013 $15,500.00 $25,800.00
Prius Pkg3 2012 $15,436.00 $26,138.00
Prius Plug-in 2012 $18,949.00 $26,298.00
Ford Fusion Hybrid 2010 $13,400.00 $26,500.00
Mazda 3 2012 $10,751.00 $27,769.00
Legacy Sedan 2010 $11,100.00 $30,000.00
Escape Hybrid 2009 $13,700.00 $31,000.00
Accord Hybrid 2014 $22,000.00 $31,200.00
Outback 2010 $13,700.00 $33,450.00
Outback 2015 $23,100.00 $38,400.00

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I ran 20 different cars through my vehicle cost of ownership spreadsheet and the results are interesting. I assumed a 10 year ownership, and for the most part held variables like registration, maintenance, and insurance consistent. The variables I customized for each vehicle was purchase price, sell price, and fuel economy.

Out of 20 vehicles, by far the cheapest to own for 10 years is a 2001 Honda Insight - manual gearbox. It has a 10 year cost of $14,600. Interestingly, a 2000 Nissan Sentra or 2005 Toyota Corolla is in the middle of the pack at $23,000 for 10 years of ownership. The 2011 Nissan Leaf SV came in as the 2nd cheapest car to own at $18,500.

Even driving a cheap old beater that gets relatively good gas mileage won't save you money over 10 years of driving compared to a 2011 Leaf.

Of course, this all assumes things such as my low cost of maintenance, electric rates, etc. Your costs of ownership will be different, but should still favor a used EV. If you don't believe me, run the numbers yourself.

20 cars compared. Sorted from lowest cost of ownership to highest.
Model - Year - Purchase Price - 10 Year Cost
Insight Manual 2001 $3,000.00 $14,600.00
Leaf SV 2011 $12,200.00 $18,500.00
Jetta TDI Wagon 2003 $4,842.00 $20,000.00
Golf TDI 2003 $5,250.00 $20,300.00
Prius Pkg3 2007 $7,070.00 $21,522.00
Leaf SL 2013 $19,161.00 $21,991.00
Sentra 2000 $1,200.00 $23,100.00
Corolla 2005 $4,800.00 $23,100.00
Prius Pkg3 2010 $13,354.00 $25,082.00
C-max 2013 $15,500.00 $25,800.00
Prius Pkg3 2012 $15,436.00 $26,138.00
Prius Plug-in 2012 $18,949.00 $26,298.00
Ford Fusion Hybrid 2010 $13,400.00 $26,500.00
Mazda 3 2012 $10,751.00 $27,769.00
Legacy Sedan 2010 $11,100.00 $30,000.00
Escape Hybrid 2009 $13,700.00 $31,000.00
Accord Hybrid 2014 $22,000.00 $31,200.00
Outback 2010 $13,700.00 $33,450.00
Outback 2015 $23,100.00 $38,400.00

Thanks for running those numbers. Here's my 15 year on a 1993 Ford Festiva MT About on the same track as a Honda Insight MT. The only thing about the Honda Insight is that I believe upgrades and maintenance will be higher then what you have factored here given the issues with IMA and transmission issues. The Leaf is a very attractive options, and just might make the most sense in 3-4 years when the better models cost $10-$12k.

1993 Ford Festiva

Depreciation = Purchase price - Sale price (estimated)
$800 depreciation = $1,000 purchase - $200 sale

Maintenance/Repairs = Yearly maint cost * Years of ownership
$2,250 Maint = $150 maint * 15 years

Insurance = Yearly premium * Years
$6,000 Insurance = $400 premium * 15 years

Taxes/Registration = Yearly cost * Years
$450 Registration = $30 * 15 years

Fuel Cost = Yearly Miles * Cost per mile * Years
$12,600 Fuel Cost = 12,000 miles * ($3.47\45mpg=7 cents per mile) * 15 years

Total 15 year cost of ownership = $22,100
$0.12 per mile

Hypermiler Mode

Fuel Cost = Yearly Miles * Cost per mile * Years
$9,000 Fuel Cost = 12,000 miles * ($3.47\60mpg=5 cents per mile) * 15 years

Total 15 year cost of ownership = $18,500
$0.10 per mile

[user removed]

I've had more than a few vehicles that I sold for more than all the money I spent on them including fuel, fees, insurance, and every other cost combined to operate them for thousands of miles.

Call it a 3k+ mile debugging test drive.

One Altima, we drove it 20k, sold it to the wifes parents. They passed and her brother drove it a year, we got it back when the estate was settled, sold it to one of her coworkers. It got whacked about once a year for 3 more years and finally totalled again.

Step daughter bought a 91 Sentra new for $9999, it was totalled by an uninsured driver in an apartment parking lot. I cut the rear end off it and mig welded another on, never painted the car, she drove it another 100k miles and sold it for $1200, recovering what I paid for the parts to repair it 10 years earlier. She collected $9.3 k from insurance and paid $9999 for the car new and she kept the car for the agreed $9300 settlement. She paid me $1200 for the rear clip, same thing she sold the car for almost a decade later.

I guess you could call that 125k miles starting with a new car for $700 depreciation and a weeks worth of my work (on vacation).

regards
mech

[mikeyjd]

Originally Posted by Old Mechanic

I've had more than a few vehicles that I sold for more than all the money I spent on them including fuel, fees, insurance, and every other cost combined to operate them for thousands of miles.

Call it a 3k+ mile debugging test drive.

One Altima, we drove it 20k, sold it to the wifes parents. They passed and her brother drove it a year, we got it back when the estate was settled, sold it to one of her coworkers. It got whacked about once a year for 3 more years and finally totalled again.

Step daughter bought a 91 Sentra new for $9999, it was totalled by an uninsured driver in an apartment parking lot. I cut the rear end off it and mig welded another on, never painted the car, she drove it another 100k miles and sold it for $1200, recovering what I paid for the parts to repair it 10 years earlier. She collected $9.3 k from insurance and paid $9999 for the car new and she kept the car for the agreed $9300 settlement. She paid me $1200 for the rear clip, same thing she sold the car for almost a decade later.

I guess you could call that 125k miles starting with a new car for $700 depreciation and a weeks worth of my work (on vacation).

regards
mech

This is the beauty of having your skill set and expertise. For most people this kind of vehicle expenditure is more like a fairy tale. I operate more in your line of thinking when it comes to vehicle operation and usually sell my vehicles for more than I pay a year or 2 after driving them, but there is definitely allot of patience, work and diligence involved with making that happen.

[NeilBlanchard]

What cost did you carry for maintenance on the Leaf?