Prius haters + Hybrids & [Bio?] Diesels

[Xist]

Originally Posted by PressEnter[]

Re: the center gauge cluster...I finally found out it's so it doesn't have to be changed for left hand vs. right hand drive markets.

I thought of that, although it did not look symmetrical. However, it would be far easier to just have right- and left-eye dashboards than everything.

How much did that reduce the price?

I believe that I rented a car like that once. I had the GPS where the speedometer should have been and never looked at the real one.

[NeilBlanchard]

Hi,

Originally Posted by mechman600

I used to be a Prius hater. It was because of the Pious owner's notion that they were saving the world by driving one, when in reality they still burn gas and they still pollute.

I'm pretty sure that most Prius drivers simply want to have the best mileage car they can buy. Is it possible that the idea that Prius owners are largely holier-than-thou is only in the mind of the beholder? Maybe brought on by a guilty conscience, or maybe a little envy? Sure, some Prius drivers may think they don't need to do anything else, but they have done something about reducing the amount of gas they burn through - which is what we all are trying to do, here on EM.

I'm going to go back and read this thread, but I wanted to respond to your post. I think you have already come to a similar conclusion:

Originally Posted by mechman600

My tune changed when I realized that in its most basic sense, a Prius is simply an economical, practical car. EPA is 50 combined.

Yes, it is the most economical car with an engine that you can buy, at the moment.

Edit: the VW XL1 seems like it is a huge leap forward for diesel electric hybrids. And biodiesel if it becomes more widely available would be a very good thing. As I understand it, biodiesel largely eliminates the soot and the sulfur. We need to do more with jatropha, which has a very oily fruit, is drought resistant and grows on marginal land - and it makes excellent diesel.

The highest mileage diesel I know of (before the XL1) is the Smart ForTwo - 700cc 3 cylinder that gets an honest 70MPG+. If the XL1 drivetrain gets used in the VW Up!, it should easily beat that, and might even get ~100-120MPG+.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by Flakbadger

Jesus, why didn't anyone ever tell me this stuff?! Thanks for the links, those are awesome!

There is a lot more where that came from. That is just a small sample of our water injection wiki (I put nearly all the info on there).

http://ecomodder.com/wiki/index.php/Water_injection

[Varn]

I have always been intrigued with the hybrid cars.

I don't pay more than a couple thousand for a car. With their complexity I don't think I will find one in my budget.

[oil pan 4]

Originally Posted by mechman600

Wow...thanks for those links. It really pisses me off that manufacturers [because of mandates by the EPA?] don't go this route. But I guess filling the water injection tank with H2O (or a H2O/CH3OH solution) does little to fuel a separate DEF economy that the EPA (or friends of those in those within) no doubt reap the benefits of.

That is why they don't allow water injection.
Its simple, cheap, reduces fuel consumption, increases power and no body makes any money off it beyond install and the occasional broken part.

The biggest problem with water injection I see is winter, freezing the water and during cold start.
Grill shutters, intercooler bypass and EGR could get the engine up to temp pretty quick.

[rmay635703]

Originally Posted by oil pan 4

The biggest problem with water injection I see is winter, freezing the water and during cold start.
Grill shutters, intercooler bypass and EGR could get the engine up to temp pretty quick.

Modern materials can handle freeze/expansion cycles of water, the trouble would be the time it takes for the water to heat, since you wouldn't have pollution control during that time or be in limp mode.

[Xist]

Originally Posted by rmay635703

Modern materials can handle freeze/expansion cycles of water, the trouble would be the time it takes for the water to heat, since you wouldn't have pollution control during that time or be in limp mode.

It sounds like another reason to use block heaters.

[Cobb]

Gee, thanks...

Originally Posted by redpoint5

I don't consider the environment at all in my quest for MPG.

Varn, wish I could be like you. Ive had a few used vehicles, 2 of which I picked out after careful testing and going over. All ended up costing me 2-400 a month in repairs. At that rate it seemed cheaper to just give the money to a bank every month to be able to pump gas and drive.

I was in an accident that wasnt my faiult and feel both the guy who hit me and my insurance hosed me. Ive decided my next car will be used, paid in full and uninsured.

oil pan 4, most businesses that are public have to think of the 3 legged stool. The customer, the share holder and the employee. You got to make decisions based on all 3. Now what one who sells the water injection kit could do is offer support for more eco modding in trade for buying their kit over anotehr guys since parts or service wont be much.

[oil pan 4]

You can antifreeze your water for water injection.
Likely addtives are methanol, propylene glycol, maybe glycerol and urea.

To prevent freezing of pumps and metal nozzles along with preventing engine flooding I would recomend a system blow down, where a minute or 2 before shut down all the water injection nozzle solenoids plus a dump valve solenoid opens and all the water gets blown out of the system by compressed air or boost from the turbo.
I would use compressed air that way I could hit the switch moments before shutting the engine off and be assured that water was kept well away from the expensive bits.

[Varn]

Hi Cobb. What I have found was that it usually takes about a 1000 dollars to get a used car up and running well. New tires, battery are normal. I may spend about a 1000 the first 6 months then it settles down.

Never believe what the current owner tells you. You have to put up with the lack of maintenance and mistakes of others that went before you. Many times the previous owner will maintain their vehicle but then for the last 6 months to a year they quit.

I won't put my old stuff up against the new except that I don't have a computer and my car will continue to run in the event of an EMP.

A comment on water injection. Here in the midwest we have a lot of minerals in the water and winter weather.

I would be afraid to run tap water. Not positive it that is a real concern, perhaps oil pan can include his thoughts. I know my faucets become unusable in 3-4 years. Would hate to see it develop on the piston crowns or valve gear.