Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Aerodynamics
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-11-2020, 10:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
aerohead's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Sanger,Texas,U.S.A.
Posts: 15,861
Thanks: 23,922
Thanked 7,207 Times in 4,640 Posts
Rear Spoilers vs 'template' contour

I've gone through 'template' comparisons of telephoto images and technical drawings, published over the decades in ROAD & TRACK. Many were in my photo-bucket archive, but I no longer have access to those, so I can only list them for now:
1964 Shelby Daytona Coupe
1969 Pontiac Trans Am Firebird
1980 Medusa concept ( ItalDesign)
1982 Pontiac Trans Am Firebird
1984 Pontiac Fiero
1985 Renault Alpine V-6
1988 Lotus Esprit Turbo
1990 Opel Calibra
1993 Ferrari 360 Modena
1995 Ferrari F355 Berlinetta
1997 Dodge Viper Coupe
1998 Toyota MR 2
2009 Nissan 370-Z Sport
2010 Honda Accord Crosstour
2011 Chevrolet VOLT-I
2012 Audi A7
2012 Subaru BRZ
2012 Audi TT RS Coupe
2013 Aston Martin Vanquish
2014 Audi RS5
2014 Chevrolet Camaro SS 1LE
2015 ACURA NSX
2015 Alfa Romeo 4C
2015 Lexus RC F
2016 Chevrolet Camaro SS
2016 Mercedes-Benz IAA concept ( with boat-tail extended )
2016 Porsche 911 GT3 RS ( fixed spoiler below wing )
2017 Porsche 911 Turbo S
2018 KIA Stinger GT
2020 Toyota GR Supra
2020 Porsche Taycan ( flip-up unit )
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since this thread will be easily accessible, I'll be able to add data as it becomes available.
Over time, I'll figure out about posting images. I lost over a month's income in the photo-bucket debacle and if I'm going to go to the expense of doing new images, I need an iron-clad guarantee that we won't lose any of them.

__________________
Photobucket album: http://s1271.photobucket.com/albums/jj622/aerohead2/
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to aerohead For This Useful Post:
California98Civic (09-12-2020)
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-11-2020, 06:35 PM   #2 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,060
Thanks: 107
Thanked 1,605 Times in 1,136 Posts
Anyone who still believes the template shows where airflow goes simply has their eyes shut.

Tesla Model S not obeying the template:






Jaguar XE not obeying the template:





(Colder colour = high pressure):




Honda Insight not obeying the template:







Honda Legend not obeying the template:






And of course the idea that a rear spoiler causes flow reattachment is completely wrong for any car of about the last 30 years. The rear flow is already attached...

That's why this rear spoiler, that reaches no higher than the standard car profile, measurably increases pressures on the hatch:




Quote:
Originally Posted by aerohead View Post
I've gone through 'template' comparisons of telephoto images and technical drawings, published over the decades in ROAD & TRACK.
Rather than looking at pictures in magazines, you would learn a very great deal more by testing some actual cars.
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JulianEdgar For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-16-2020)
Old 09-11-2020, 08:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,561
Thanks: 7,736
Thanked 8,554 Times in 7,041 Posts

https://www.ford-trucks.com/wp-conte...dead-horse.gif
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to freebeard For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-16-2020), California98Civic (09-12-2020)
Old 09-11-2020, 08:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,060
Thanks: 107
Thanked 1,605 Times in 1,136 Posts
I don't like it when people spread misinformation. In more than 30 years of writing about car modification, I've seen too many people waste their time and hard-earned money following bad advice.

Following a template when modifying car aero is a classic example - the equivalent of saying that an AFR of 12.5:1 always gives best power.

Last edited by JulianEdgar; 09-11-2020 at 10:19 PM..
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JulianEdgar For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-16-2020)
Old 09-12-2020, 12:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
Cyborg ECU
 
California98Civic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Coastal Southern California
Posts: 6,299

Black and Green - '98 Honda Civic DX Coupe
Team Honda
90 day: 66.42 mpg (US)

Black and Red - '00 Nashbar Custom built eBike
90 day: 3671.43 mpg (US)
Thanks: 2,373
Thanked 2,172 Times in 1,469 Posts
Julian, you've already said this all before. Jamming a new thread with repeats of the same images you have posted repeatedly before is simply bullying.
__________________
See my car's mod & maintenance thread and my electric bicycle's thread for ongoing projects. I will rebuild Black and Green over decades as parts die, until it becomes a different car of roughly the same shape and color. My minimum fuel economy goal is 55 mpg while averaging posted speed limits. I generally top 60 mpg. See also my Honda manual transmission specs thread.



  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to California98Civic For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-16-2020)
Old 09-12-2020, 03:34 PM   #6 (permalink)
Moderator
 
Vman455's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Urbana, IL
Posts: 1,935

Pope Pious the Prius - '13 Toyota Prius Two
Team Toyota
SUV
90 day: 51.62 mpg (US)

Tycho the Truck - '91 Toyota Pickup DLX 4WD
90 day: 22.22 mpg (US)
Thanks: 198
Thanked 1,797 Times in 937 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
Julian, you've already said this all before. Jamming a new thread with repeats of the same images you have posted repeatedly before is simply bullying.
To be fair, aerohead also repeatedly posts lists of cars like this; this is the second such thread in just a few weeks. If you're going to criticize someone for saying the same thing again and again, give credit where credit is due.
__________________
UIUC Aerospace Engineering
www.amateuraerodynamics.com
  Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Vman455 For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-16-2020), JacobLeSann (08-18-2023)
Old 09-12-2020, 04:12 PM   #7 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,561
Thanks: 7,736
Thanked 8,554 Times in 7,041 Posts
We all have more in common than we realize. But viva la dif-France.
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 04:43 PM   #8 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,060
Thanks: 107
Thanked 1,605 Times in 1,136 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by California98Civic View Post
Julian, you've already said this all before. Jamming a new thread with repeats of the same images you have posted repeatedly before is simply bullying.
Aerohead continually posts information on car aerodynamics that is incorrect and misleading. While I can be bothered, and to prevent others being mislead, I will continue posting information that shows how his posts are incorrect.

If that concerns you, I suggest you take it up with Aerohead - he is the person continually posting material that is incorrect and misleading. Or are you happy to see falsehoods being disseminated?
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JulianEdgar For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-16-2020)
Old 09-12-2020, 04:59 PM   #9 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
freebeard's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: northwest of normal
Posts: 27,561
Thanks: 7,736
Thanked 8,554 Times in 7,041 Posts
Quote:
If that concerns you, I suggest you take it up with Aerohead .... Or are you happy to see falsehoods being disseminated?
As California98Civic and Vman455 (and that yahoo at Permalink #3) suggest disagreement is tolerable but excessive verbosity is not. And excessive capitalization of handles.

Quote:
Brevity is the soul of wit
William Shakespeare
__________________
.
.
Without freedom of speech we wouldn't know who all the idiots are. -- anonymous poster

____________________
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 05:09 PM   #10 (permalink)
Banned
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,060
Thanks: 107
Thanked 1,605 Times in 1,136 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by freebeard View Post
As California98Civic and Vman455 (and that yahoo at Permalink #3) suggest disagreement is tolerable but excessive verbosity is not. And excessive capitalization of handles.
Again, take that up with Aerohead not me. In fact my post used the premise 'a pic is worth a 1000 words' and had very few words (115 in fact) in it. It's Aerohead who writes reams of stuff - one reason I think he has got away with spreading rubbish here for so long... it just overwhelms people.

And as I said to California98Civic: are you happy to see falsehoods being disseminated?

  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to JulianEdgar For This Useful Post:
aerohead (09-16-2020)
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com