Small / economy car deathwatch: we've passed "peak econobox" again

[Vman455]

Originally Posted by litesong

I never could afford a Prius, because of the arrogance displayed by Prius sales-people that would NOT talk to me about lower prices.

I paid $20,000 for a Prius that listed at $25,000. Your mistake: don't talk to salespeople. Go directly to the online sales manager at several different dealerships and then make them fight each other for your business.

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Bicycle Bob

It is nice to have standard tests to help with comparisons, but I have no faith in the real-world results of pollution checks. Those machines are strictly off-limits for any kind of diagnostic experimentation, for which they would be invaluable. I suspect that VW was just the most blatant cheater, and all the rest are laying low. NOX is a temporary problem, but the savings in CO2 may well have been in the public interest overall.

That is why the EU has started testing emissions while the vehicle is driving on public roads.

https://www.acea.be/industry-topics/...emissions-test

Almost every automaker has been caught cheating: Ford, Chrysler, GM, Toyota, Honda, BMW, Mercedes, Hyundai, Renault, Peugeot...

VW was just the most bold about their defeat device. The car actually turned off emission controls if it didn't sense that the car was driving on a dyno. They rest kind of work around the edges in grey areas.

[Hersbird]

Originally Posted by JSH

Technically it could be but it wouldn't sell in the USA. Few people are going to buy a midsize car with 98 hp.

The extra battery weight is minimal for a hybrid. Even the old 1.3 kWh NiMH battery in the Prius only weighs 93 lbs. Li-Ion batteries weigh less. The Prius adds 2 motor/generators but eliminates the starter and alternator.

It may be minimal but without it the car would get better MPG steady state highway. Toyota could build a Prius exactly like a Prius minus the drive battery, electric motors, add a regular starter and alternator, sell if for thousands less and it would get better MPG on real world highways. Someday if we haven't already we will see used Prius running around with the battery gutted from it and it just being a solid standard hatchback.

[freebeard]

I posted this first in 2013. My assertion is that based on the power ratings and Cd of the [40mpg] 36hp Beetle and the Prius that a air-cooled 36hp motor would return equal economy if not equal acceleration.



Are the spats and wheel disks a cheat?

[JSH]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

It may be minimal but without it the car would get better MPG steady state highway. Toyota could build a Prius exactly like a Prius minus the drive battery, electric motors, add a regular starter and alternator, sell if for thousands less and it would get better MPG on real world highways. Someday if we haven't already we will see used Prius running around with the battery gutted from it and it just being a solid standard hatchback.

An ICE only Prius would require a drivetrain swap. (At least the transmission). The Prius has an E-CVT. It has a single planetary gear set. For acceleration the engine is decoupled from the transmission, one motor/generator makes electricity to power the other motor/generator. It won’t run without the battery

[redpoint5]

Originally Posted by Hersbird

It may be minimal but without it the car would get better MPG steady state highway. Toyota could build a Prius exactly like a Prius minus the drive battery, electric motors, add a regular starter and alternator, sell if for thousands less and it would get better MPG on real world highways. Someday if we haven't already we will see used Prius running around with the battery gutted from it and it just being a solid standard hatchback.

The Prius can't run without a battery, as the drivetrain depends on MG1 (Motor Generator 1) to continuously vary the effective gear ratio of the ICE. The Prius is dead without MG1 and battery, extremely anemic (more so than normal) to accelerate without MG2, and has zero regen without MG2.

If we see Prii in the future running around sans battery and motors, they aren't Prii.

To JSH point that the hybrid tech improves highway fuel economy, it achieves that because of the ability to continuously vary the transmission and to keep the ICE operating near peak efficiency. We can accomplish much the same with a CVT, but we'd still need to upscale the ICE to compensate for the lack of power that an electric motor adds.

Not saying it isn't possible to achieve the same or better highway fuel economy than a hybrid, just saying an ICE that does that would either be very undesirable to the public, or have other expensive technology such as turbos.

[Xist]

I just wish that some engineer type with a Prius shell and a Firebird drivetrain would give that silly-looking car real guts!

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Originally Posted by Xist

I just wish that some engineer type with a Prius shell and a Firebird drivetrain would give that silly-looking car real guts!

Someone swapped a Hellcat drivetrain into a Prius, something like 800hp.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFbvYeFO8w4

[freebeard]

I think it's just the crate motor, aren't Hellcats AWD? My son the SRT-8 owner/Prius hater needs to see that. AS for me:


https://www.freshnessmag.com/2011/12...acing-series/#!

Although maybe with a satin NATO green finish.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Photoshop? I can't imagine that being real. It doesn't even look like a Prius anymore other than the headlight housings.