Well to wheels, Cradle to grave analysis by MB shows B Class ED emits less carbon

[MetroMPG]

Originally Posted by California98Civic

At 3.8 or 3.9L/100km my little "black & green" modded/hypermiled civic burns about 28% - 30% less fuel than that B180 Mercedes.

[...]

That said, I have learned to admire the EVs a lot. I'd love to have one, someday.

I'd expect your future ecomodded & hypermiled EV will easily be 30% more efficient than the average owner's comparable vehicle too.

[NeilBlanchard]

I have yet to hear what it is about building an EV specifically, that takes so much more energy than the aluminum in the engine and all the manufacturing and transportation of all the thousands of parts in the drivetrain in the ICE. Everybody says it is the battery, but frankly, I have yet to hear that battery plants are such huge consumers of energy.

I have heard about how aluminum smelters are right up there with concrete production as one of the largest industrial users of energy. And I have heard that oil extraction, and oil refineries are both large consumers of energy - so there is a lot more energy embedded in gasoline/diesel than is directly contained in the liquid itself.

From what I have seen, it takes about 2 years of electricity production to offset the energy used to build a solar panel, so that leaves about 25-30 years (or more) of positive production. So, solar PV can negate a portion (at least?) of the building of the EV.

And since the Tesla Gigafactory is planned to be 100% powered by renewable energy, the batteries are actually carbon free and have virtually no energy overhead.

[sendler]

I think mining and refining the Lithium is the major energy consumer in the EV production.

[NeilBlanchard]

I think lithium is not so much mined as gathered:





The sun does much of the work, I think? There are only a few pounds of lithium in a battery pack, if I am not mistaken. It may be the production of the battery:

http://www.transportation.anl.gov/pdfs/TA/149.pdf

[MPaulHolmes]

For lead acid, it works out to around 3 kg of CO2 for an EV battery pack if using recycled batteries and Hydro power. That's just from the energy to manufacture the raw materials for the batteries.

[sendler]

Lead batteries have such a short range and life cycle why bother discussing them?

[MPaulHolmes]

With a battery balancer in place, Lee Hart had to change his pack every 6 or 7 years I believe. I'm just trying to figure out where 10,000 extra pounds of CO2 are coming from by doing a traditional conversion. Only very recently have people started using lithium.

Maybe it's only "conversions" that car companies do that are power hogs. Heck, they spend $100,000,000 to make a new prototype. I spent $2200 on my conversion "prototype".

[sendler]

Can you put 30 kWh of lead in a car?

[MPaulHolmes]

No. I don't think you can.

[esoneson]

Well.....you can........but it won't go far with 4 flats and bent rims.