What will be the Ultimate North America Econobox of the future?

[vskid3]

Originally Posted by Natalya

How hard are the G2 Priuses on their batteries? They must not eat them like the older Honda hybrids.

G2 Insights can go for over 200k miles on the original battery as long as they get all 3 software updates.

Time and possibly environment seem to have a bigger impact on Prius batteries than miles. I've seen many reports of 250k+ miles on the original battery if they're driven a lot, while batteries start failing in 100-150k mile cars at 10-12 years.

My 2005's battery died in December 2017 at 136k miles after living most of its life in sunny El Paso, TX. I did a few charge/discharge cycles on the modules and replaced the 3 worst ones, only for it to die again a year and a half later (my Camry hybrid's battery conveniently decided to kick the bucket at nearly the same time, so I swapped the Camry's ok-ish modules into the Prius and bought a new battery for the Camry).

As far as fixing the battery, you can DIY for a few hundred bucks, or find someone on Craigslist that'll refurbish your battery or swap it with one they've refurbished for $500-1000. There are companies that sell refurbished batteries for $1000-1500, or you can get a brand new battery from Toyota for $2000 (gen2 only, others are more). After weighing the options for mine, I would go with a new battery unless the car is on its last leg or you plan on getting rid of it within a couple years.

[Hersbird]

I think the price point needs to be under $4k and ready to go trouble free for at least 3 years. So while you may find a Prius under $4k it's probably going to need at least $1000 worth of battery work in that time. So I vote Mirage but only with a manual transmission.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

The Prius really isn't a small econobox. There is a crap ton of space in that car. I'd consider it more of a mid-size vehicle, like a Camry, even though dimension-wise it's smaller.

And like many have mentioned, Prii in the econobox range typically need $1000+ in work before too long.

[Hersbird]

Econobox is all about economy. If an F350 was cheap enough, got wonderful economy, was inexpensive to insure and license, and didn't need repairs then it could be the champion econobox IMO. What is the least expensive car to operate, that is the question. This will be different to different people. A $4000 used compliance EV may be for some who don't drive further than 40 miles a day, a TDi VW might be the best for someone with 100 highway miles a day, and a Prius might be best for someone in between. The Mirage also does good in city/highway and I like simple for long term saving on costs.

[mpg_numbers_guy]

Notice I said small econobox. I don't think anyone would disagree that the Prius is an econobox.

[serialk11r]

How far in the future are we talking?

I think the Skyactiv Mazdas are getting somewhat close to the 4k mark. Their low load BSFC is very, very good for something that came out that long ago.

[Ecky]

There seems to be little love for PHEVs, but I'd love to pick one up. I can't wait for the Accord plug-in or, later, a Clarity, to hit econobox price points.

I'd consider something like a C-Max too for the right price, but I'm a bit more leery of domestic hybrids.

I wonder how the Cruze diesel will age?

[Natalya]

I don't think any VW can count as an econobox when their reliability is so bad. I worked for a guy with a 2006 Jetta wagon and I helped do his taxes... he spent $2k a year on that car in repairs. And a relative had an older Jetta sedan that he was working on every other week.

The Clarity is an excellent car. Too bad no one wants them. That is, unless you want one. Look at this ad for example. $27k for a 15k mile Clarity which would have cost $40k new and is less than 2 years old. They do not hold resale value.

[Ecky]

I see Clarities all over Vermont, apparently people here like them. I believe I read Honda pulled them from dealers everywhere but California recently though.

[Natalya]

I just checked the numbers -- Honda has made more G2 Clarities than G3 Insights so far.