Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Fossil Fuel Free
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 09-11-2018, 09:43 AM   #31 (permalink)
Somewhat crazed
 
Piotrsko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 1826 miles WSW of Normal
Posts: 4,043
Thanks: 462
Thanked 1,104 Times in 974 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
If coal is 12,000BTU per pound then 1 ton is 24 million BTU, or about $4 per million BTU, which is cheaper than natural gas.

I was thinking coal might be a little cheaper if delivered by the train load to a ship yard.
Delivery is much cheaper by the hopper, but who has space for 100 tons, then you have to move it from the yard unless you also have a dedicated pit siding to drop into waiting delivery system. The cement plant I used to live by could offload 16 railcars before they ran out of storage.

Handling and storage are your main problems raising cost.

__________________
casual notes from the underground:There are some "experts" out there that in reality don't have a clue as to what they are doing.
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 09-11-2018, 12:35 PM   #32 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,950 Times in 1,844 Posts
Coal - How is This Still a Thing?

Coal - How is This Still a Thing?

We blow up mountains. Which poisons the water.
We pay other human beings to go down deep underground to dig it out of the ground. We rent their lungs and their backs.
We ship it. Which spreads dust all over.
We "wash" it. Which requires chemicals. Which poisons the water. Ooops - we spilled it!
We burn it. Which changes the climate. Which produces mercury pollution. Which produces deadly pollutants, and acid rain. Which produces fly ash. Which has spilled. Which poisons the water.

Coal ruins the land.
Coal ruins the air.
Coal ruins the water.
Coal causes climate change.
Coal kills miners.

Coal kills.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 02:14 PM   #33 (permalink)
Human Environmentalist
 
redpoint5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Oregon
Posts: 12,394

Acura TSX - '06 Acura TSX
90 day: 24.19 mpg (US)

Lafawnda - '01 Honda CBR600 F4i
90 day: 47.32 mpg (US)

Big Yeller - '98 Dodge Ram 2500 base
90 day: 21.82 mpg (US)

Prius Plug-in - '12 Toyota Prius Plug-in
90 day: 57.64 mpg (US)

Mazda CX-5 - '17 Mazda CX-5 Touring
90 day: 26.68 mpg (US)

Chevy ZR-2 - '03 Chevrolet S10 ZR2
90 day: 17.14 mpg (US)
Thanks: 4,189
Thanked 4,380 Times in 3,354 Posts
Well, the fellas above just discussed how coal is still a thing. Everything has trade-offs.

I could replace the word "coal" with "people" in every single thing you've said above, and it would still make sense.

Sometime in the future when we're all humming away on nuclear energy, we'll look back and wonder why that was so difficult.
__________________
Gas and Electric Vehicle Cost of Ownership Calculator







Give me absolute safety, or give me death!
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 02:33 PM   #34 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
Coal burned for power generation uses bag houses to collect the fly ash. The fly ash gets used to make concrete.
Hopefully I will be using coal to heat my house when I can find a supply channel.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post

We blow up mountains.
ruins the land.
ruins the air.
ruins the water.
climate change.
kills miners.

kills.
Just replace coal with "Chinese solar panels" and you get the same thing.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-11-2018, 02:46 PM   #35 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by redpoint5 View Post
Well, the fellas above just discussed how coal is still a thing. Everything has trade-offs.

I could replace the word "coal" with "people" in every single thing you've said above, and it would still make sense.

Sometime in the future when we're all humming away on nuclear energy, we'll look back and wonder why that was so difficult.
When the power starts going out people will drop the fake outrage and forget about the over hyped dangers of nuclear power.
All the evil fly ash can supply thorium for next gen reactors and if the uranium price goes over and stays above $50 to $60 per pound it becomes economical to mine uranium from fly ash.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 11:37 AM   #36 (permalink)
Somewhat crazed
 
Piotrsko's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: 1826 miles WSW of Normal
Posts: 4,043
Thanks: 462
Thanked 1,104 Times in 974 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by NeilBlanchard View Post
Coal - How is This Still a Thing?.
Idunno, perhaps you should ask The Donald
__________________
casual notes from the underground:There are some "experts" out there that in reality don't have a clue as to what they are doing.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 11:47 AM   #37 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
A large portion of our power comes from coal.
0bama did nothing to stop coal fired power production, he closed the worst of the worst polluting plants.
If he really wanted to get rid of coal he would have restated the United States nuclear fuel recycling system, which he did and pushed nuclear power, which he quitely did but barely made any effort, if he would have made a real effort to push nuclear a good chunk of the oldest plants could have been closed around 2030.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 12:46 PM   #38 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
NeilBlanchard's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Maynard, MA Eaarth
Posts: 7,907

Mica Blue - '05 Scion xA RS 2.0
Team Toyota
90 day: 42.48 mpg (US)

Forest - '15 Nissan Leaf S
Team Nissan
90 day: 156.46 mpg (US)

Number 7 - '15 VW e-Golf SEL
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 155.81 mpg (US)
Thanks: 3,475
Thanked 2,950 Times in 1,844 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
Coal burned for power generation uses bag houses to collect the fly ash. The fly ash gets used to make concrete.
Hopefully I will be using coal to heat my house when I can find a supply channel.



Just replace coal with "Chinese solar panels" and you get the same thing.
How do solar panels blow up mountains, and give people black lung, and cause mercury poisoning?

Quote:
Originally Posted by oil pan 4 View Post
A large portion of our power comes from coal.
0bama did nothing to stop coal fired power production, he closed the worst of the worst polluting plants.
If he really wanted to get rid of coal he would have restated the United States nuclear fuel recycling system, which he did and pushed nuclear power, which he quitely did but barely made any effort, if he would have made a real effort to push nuclear a good chunk of the oldest plants could have been closed around 2030.
We are closing coal plants all the time - it is too expensive. We are down to under 38%, last I heard. We are adding renewables more and more, and we will be much better off.
__________________
Sincerely, Neil

http://neilblanchard.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 02:41 PM   #39 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
First off about 70% of Chinese electricity is generated by coal and solar cell and solar panel production is an energy intensive process. Plus think of all the metals that go into solar panels, aluminum, copper, silver, the glass and all the rare earth stuff.
They don't just miracle them selves into existence with out any pollution or destruction.

If solar power is so cheap then why does china use mostly coal power to make panels that they sell to other countries?
"If solar was cheaper than coal" why don't they just use solar power for every thing since they make 70 or 80% of the world's solar panels?
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2018, 03:44 PM   #40 (permalink)
Master EcoWalker
 
RedDevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Nieuwegein, the Netherlands
Posts: 3,998

Red Devil - '11 Honda Insight Elegance
Team Honda
90 day: 47.72 mpg (US)
Thanks: 1,711
Thanked 2,245 Times in 1,454 Posts
It takes time, but they are under way.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_power_in_China
Quote:
China is the world's largest market for both photovoltaics and solar thermal energy. Since 2013 China has been the world's leading installer of solar photovoltaics (PV). In 2015, China became the world's largest producer of photovoltaic power, narrowly surpassing Germany.[1][2][3] By the end of 2016, total PV capacity had increased to over 77.4 GW,[4] and in 2017 China was the first country to pass 100 GW of cumulative installed PV capacity.[5] As of May 2018, China holds the record for largest operational solar project in its 1,547-MW project at Tengger.[6] The contribution to the total electric energy production remains modest[7] as the average capacity factor of solar power plants is relatively low at 17% on average. Of the 6,412 TWh electricity produced in China in 2017,[8] 118.2 TWh was generated by solar power, equivalent to 1.84% of total electricity production.[9] The goal for 2050 is to reach 1,300 GW of solar capacity. If this goal is to be reached it would be the source with the largest installed capacity in China.[10]
More than anyone else. But still just a fraction of their total energy production. For now.

It takes energy to make solar panels, but it is just a fraction of the energy they produce.
It takes energy to build a coal plant too, but then pollution does not stop when the plant is ready.

__________________
2011 Honda Insight + HID, LEDs, tiny PV panel, extra brake pad return springs, neutral wheel alignment, 44/42 PSI (air), PHEV light (inop), tightened wheel nut.
lifetime FE over 0.2 Gmeter or 0.13 Mmile.


For confirmation go to people just like you.
For education go to people unlike yourself.

Last edited by RedDevil; 09-12-2018 at 04:04 PM..
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Tags
green washing, lies, scam, wind turbine

Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com