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-   -   101.5 MPG on my 2003 Ninja 250!!! (https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/101-5-mpg-my-2003-ninja-250-a-8686.html)

theycallmeebryan 06-07-2009 09:33 PM

101.5 MPG on my 2003 Ninja 250!!!
 
http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/p...5287349361.jpg

You can see my initial post about my bike HERE. Its a stock 2003 Ninja 250 with changed gearing (from 14/45 [3.21] to 15/39 [2.60]). Even the carb jetting is stock. The only other change is the tires. Stock, the bike comes with 100/80/16 fronts, and 120/80/16 rears. My bike has 100/90/16 fronts and 130/90/16 rears.

As of 05/15/09, my previous mpg average for 1 year was 71.9mpg. As i had stated in the post linked above, its my commuter bike for which most of the time was spent on the Garden State Parkway (65mph limit) doing 75mph on average. I always position myself in a tuck any time i am over 45-50mph.

After reading about techniques that the currently successful hypermilers are using, I was curious to see how my little Ninja's fuel efficiency would improve if i applied these techniques to my every day riding style. So i did... Heres the log since then. (Note: i started these techniques after the 5/15/09 fill up, so the data after that date reflects the effects of these techniques.)

http://ecomodder.com/forum/fe-graphs/graph2804.gif

Tank ending on 5/21/09: 8% mpg gain from average. 77.7mpg
The first thing i started to do was slow my highway speed down to 65mph. I had just began to attempt some very minor EOC events... it takes time to "learn" your commute route and to spot the correct EOC initiation points, as well as learning how far the vehicle can travel during EOC. Im sure you hypermilers know what i mean.

Tank ending on 5/28/09: 19% mpg gain from average. 85.7mpg
On this tank, i did not exceed 60mph on the highway. My EOC'ing was more pronounced as i had gained more experience with it on my bike. I also limited my in-town speed to 5mph under the speed limit, no less than 30mph, in the highest gear. Acceleration, as is my riding style with this bike, was minimal.

I was ecstatic!! I could not believe the improvement at this point. While it was a significant improvement, I still wanted to go through another tank using the same techniques in order to validate the improvements

Tank ending on 6/7/09: 31% mpg gain from average. 94.1mpg!
Inspired by my previous tank's improvement, i pretty much tried as hard as i could to EOC as much as was realistically necessary. I still did not exceed 60mph on the highway, however sometimes i would slow to 55mph if there was no one close behind me (even so, other drivers didn't seem to mind and calmly passed me). In-town speed was still 5mph under the speed limit.

I would like to note that my fill up routine is very uniform in that i always fill up to where the gas is touching a metal rim below the gas cap assembly. To make things even better, all 3 of these fill ups were at the EXACT same fuel pump.

PS: If you happen to live in New Jersey and see a yellow Ninja 250 driving at or a little below the speed limit, with the rider crouched down as much as possible, usually carrying a book bag, please feel free to honk at me and/or give me the thumbs up if you see me!

Tank ending on 06-15-09: 92.8mpg

Sooooo close to 100mpg!!!

Tank ending on 06-22-09: 101.5mpg!!

I did it!!!!!!! My bike went 391 miles before hitting reserve!!! Its crazy! I told my dad how I am now getting over 90mpg and he asked me whether my odometer was incorrect or not. :D

As a side note: The gas in this tank (from 6-15 to 6-22) was exxon 87.... it must have been bad gas because any more than 40-50% throttle and my bike would start pinging. It didn't bother me much though since i rarely ever use that much throttle.

Tank ending on 06-30-09: 97.8 mpg!

Was stuck in traffic on the highway a few times because of people rushing down to the shore. Tried my best to EOC and DWB in traffic as much as i could, but i think it took a little hit in mpg from that.

Tank ending on 07-10-2009: 95.9 mpg!

I did an experiment on this tank. I had been experiencing lower back pain from tucking down alot. On this tank, i sat up comfortably and never crouched and I still was able to achieve over 90mpg. It appears that 55mph is a sweet spot as far as aerodynamics go. I am very happy that i was able to achieve this number without crouching. Further tanks will confirm the success of EOC and 55mph maximum cruising on motorcycles (any motor vehicle for that matter).

Tank ending on 07-17-09: 91.6 mpg

Still sitting up comfortably and still achieving over 90mpg. I had done a 60mile trip at 65mph during this tank because i was pressed for time getting to class. That may have dropped my MPG off a little bit. More to come!

Tank ending on 07-24-09: 90.4 mpg

This tank, my mpg was down because i was a little pissed off at a driver on the parkway and had to catch up to him (he was doing 90) so i could give him a piece of my mind. Doing over 90mph on this bike requires WOT. I was doing 55mph in the right lane and he came flying up behind me and nearly clipped me when passing me.... i literally felt the turbulence on my leg coming off his front bumper. He was like a foot away from me. Turns out, it looked like he was a retired trooper or something (he had the NJ Trooper shield on his side window)..... but since when does that give them the right to drive like an idiot? I still yelled and screamed at the guy.

Tank ending on 08-10-09: 90.13mpg

Tank ending on 08-16-09: 90.12mpg

I'm sorry that i have not posted in a 2 weeks or so. I have been quite busy enjoying life :thumbup:.

The past two weeks, i installed a radiator block about 75% just to see how it would affect my mileage. The cooling system works really well on my bike, and usually hovers just over the bottom normal temp line (about 25% of the gauge sweep), even in 70+ weather. With the radiator block, the temp operates around 50% on the gauge now, even in 95*F weather.

In essence, a warmer operating temp should richen the bike up a little, and it felt to have done just that during my riding. This makes me wonder whether or not the stock jetting is too rich for the summer temperatures, and whether i could gain another 5% or so by rejetting the bike. The only thing holding me back is that removing the carbs on this bike is a pain in the butt with the stock airbox still installed.

I'll never really know until i start messing around with different jetting, or until I weld a bung in my exhaust and hook my wideband up to it.

dcb 06-07-2009 09:53 PM

:thumbup::thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

Christ 06-07-2009 10:03 PM

Great Job!

energy0uth 06-08-2009 01:10 AM

love it...if only i didn't live at home my license wouldn't just say M on it lol

janvos39 06-08-2009 02:20 PM

Very good result. I am amazed that the hypermiling on the bike brings so much improvement. So to improve further I think you need to do some aerodynamic steps.

theycallmeebryan 06-08-2009 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janvos39 (Post 108692)
Very good result. I am amazed that the hypermiling on the bike brings so much improvement. So to improve further I think you need to do some aerodynamic steps.

I think it would be amazing to hit over 100mpg with nothing but riding technique. :cool:

I have been talking about doing some aero mods to my bike. After seeing what the Rocket trike has accomplished on the front page, i see no reason i couldn't atleast hit 120mpg with good aero combined with riding technique.

dcb 06-08-2009 03:48 PM

I can't beat 100 on a regular basis. I just have a small rear sprocket and lowered the suspension a bit (and aired up the tires as much as I was comfortable doing), and a lot of EOC/P&G

theycallmeebryan 06-15-2009 05:58 PM

Just filled up again today. 92.xx mpg! This confirms my previous tank was valid within ~2%. :D

ldjessee00 06-16-2009 12:43 PM

Congrats!

beatr911 06-16-2009 01:24 PM

Outstanding!
Try gearing next. I think you can crack 100 mpg!

Also when you change your chain/sprockets get a high quality low friction non 0-ring race chain and an automatic chain oiler like a Scottoiler. The dirty excess oil flings off at the countershaft sprocket and is relatively easily hosed off (use engine oil). It honestly reduces chain stretch by 3-5 times by keeping the chain lubed and clean. My experience with it on my GPZ550 confirms I'll buy one for the next street chain drive bike I buy. Pays for itsself before your next chain/sprocket change.

beatr911 06-16-2009 01:43 PM

OOPS! Should've read the original post. Guess you did the gearing.

Well I still think you can reach 100 mpg. I picked up 5+ mpg on my Connie by lowering the fuel level in the float bowls about 10mm, effectively leaning all circuits. This may have other adverse affects on the main, but I almost never dip into the main circuits.

To do it better weld in a bung on the exhaust and install a cheap O2 sensor and monitor the voltage with an AFR gauge or a voltmeter. Adjust jetting, air orifices and mixture screws accordingly after doing good research on how your carbies work. This will get you pretty darn close and you won't spend $400 on a wide band set up.

Additionally, I'm considering using intake air heat to seasonally fine tune the carbs though I don't know how effective it will be with the CV carbs we have.

MetroMPG 06-16-2009 05:13 PM

Nice work!

With my Ninja 250, the best I saw on a full tank was 85 mpg (imperial) which works out to 70.8 mpg (US) or 3.3 L/100 km.

This was on a relaxed (non-tucked) highway round trip in summer weather (let's say 25C) @ about 80 km/h (50 mph) with some city driving at each end.

Driving style was pretty tame: short shift (which on this bike was around 4-5000 RPM - 14000 RPM limit), & "driving without brakes" in the city portions. No engine off coasting or pulse & glide.

theycallmeebryan 06-16-2009 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beatr911 (Post 110291)
OOPS! Should've read the original post. Guess you did the gearing.

Well I still think you can reach 100 mpg. I picked up 5+ mpg on my Connie by lowering the fuel level in the float bowls about 10mm, effectively leaning all circuits. This may have other adverse affects on the main, but I almost never dip into the main circuits.

To do it better weld in a bung on the exhaust and install a cheap O2 sensor and monitor the voltage with an AFR gauge or a voltmeter. Adjust jetting, air orifices and mixture screws accordingly after doing good research on how your carbies work. This will get you pretty darn close and you won't spend $400 on a wide band set up.

Additionally, I'm considering using intake air heat to seasonally fine tune the carbs though I don't know how effective it will be with the CV carbs we have.

I think its possible for me to reach 100mpg too... i am very close :thumbup:

My carbs are much smaller. The stock float bowl height in my carbs is 17mm, and when i took the carbs out a few months ago to clean them, they were both exactly at 17mm. I dont think i'll be able to decrease it nearly as much as you did. I may only be able to go 3-5mm.

I dont think i ever use the main jets on my bike. In fact, most of my riding probably is influenced by the pilot jet and screw. Even on the highway, i dont think i go more than half throttle, even with the changed gearing.

Are you suggesting using a narrow band or wide band sensor? I have a few narrow band sensors laying around from various cars i have owned. The only wideband i have is in my 1984 Buick Grand National, and its a part of the FAST standalone ecu that i have in the car. All a narrow band + voltmeter will tell me though is whether or not my current mixture is stoichiometric. I can see your pint. The only problem is that the exhaust pipes on the ninja 250 are only 3/4" ID each (i just measured), so i would need to find a NB sensor small enough to fit.

Another thing is that in stock configuration, the Carbs on this bike are a hassle to work on.... because of the huge factory air box. If i were to replace the airbox with pods, it would make things much easier.

MetroMPG 06-16-2009 10:36 PM

I want to stick this on the front page. Do you have a full pic of your bike? The one in the other thread has the front tire cut off.

theycallmeebryan 06-16-2009 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 110351)
I want to stick this on the front page. Do you have a full pic of your bike? The one in the other thread has the front tire cut off.

Wow, thats great!

I'll have to get a better picture for you tomorrow out in the sun. :thumbup:

Christ 06-16-2009 11:35 PM

Shine it up nice... 1 million or more people are about to see it.

theycallmeebryan 06-16-2009 11:39 PM

Just wanted to post the new fuel log since my last fill up. :thumbup:

http://www.mileagetracker.org/showBi...t=Create+Graph

Sooooo close to 100mpg

JacobAziza 06-17-2009 01:04 AM

That is amazing.

I am much humbled.

And inspired. Most I ever got on the ninjette was 70.something

Time to step it up - thanks for the inspiration!

beatr911 06-17-2009 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theycallmeebryan (Post 110338)
I think its possible for me to reach 100mpg too... i am very close :thumbup:

My carbs are much smaller. The stock float bowl height in my carbs is 17mm, and when i took the carbs out a few months ago to clean them, they were both exactly at 17mm. I dont think i'll be able to decrease it nearly as much as you did. I may only be able to go 3-5mm.

I dont think i ever use the main jets on my bike. In fact, most of my riding probably is influenced by the pilot jet and screw. Even on the highway, i dont think i go more than half throttle, even with the changed gearing.

Are you suggesting using a narrow band or wide band sensor? I have a few narrow band sensors laying around from various cars i have owned. The only wideband i have is in my 1984 Buick Grand National, and its a part of the FAST standalone ecu that i have in the car. All a narrow band + voltmeter will tell me though is whether or not my current mixture is stoichiometric. I can see your pint. The only problem is that the exhaust pipes on the ninja 250 are only 3/4" ID each (i just measured), so i would need to find a NB sensor small enough to fit.

Another thing is that in stock configuration, the Carbs on this bike are a hassle to work on.... because of the huge factory air box. If i were to replace the airbox with pods, it would make things much easier.

I was suggesting using the NB sensor so you'd know if it was rich or lean. Using it over varying conditions would give you a general idea where it was rich or lean. Since you already have a WB sensor in the GN you could temporarily use that and have a really good idea of how far you need to adjust the mixture. I seem to recall that about 15.3:1 is about it for maximum fuel efficiency but that is probably for an OHV v8 IIRC. Some aircraft owners go up to 22:1 (and higher) at WOT lean cruise. The 250 has little tiny combustion chambers and a very short flame distance so you may be able to go really lean. A good subject for an experiment.

Because the pipes are small, stand-off the sensor from the exhaust flow so like only half of it is directly in the exhaust flow. It may slow the response of the sensor some but your brain isn't processing at the speed of your cars computer anyway so it won't matter.

You probably already know this, but the sensor needs to be close enough to the head to heat up to 600-800 degrees F to work properly. If you get a heated 4 wire sensor you can put it in another possibly more convenient location.

I'd guess, and it's only a guess, you are solidly in the needle intermediate circuit due to load. The pilot and idle circuits also contribute but the idle less so.

Keep the factory air box. I don't fully understand exactly why, but large airbox volumes help mid range torque production. This was a big thing when the 600cc class was reaching for 90 factory hp, they had really soft mid range and huge air boxes even before the filter helped. For maximum top end individual filters can show a benefit due to increased flow, but it kills bottom and mid range. A K&N may help a tiny bit, but when using it for mileage you probably won't see much pressure drop across the stock filter anyway. Stock filter better anyway.

Keep up the good work! I'm rooting for you to see several 100+ tanks.

theycallmeebryan 06-18-2009 12:37 AM

Hows this? Took this on my cellphone while at work today :thumbup:

http://i422.photobucket.com/albums/p...5287349361.jpg

theycallmeebryan 06-22-2009 09:57 PM

I did it!!!!!!!

101.5mpg!! :thumbup::thumbup::thumbup:

My bike went 391 miles before hitting reserve!!! Its crazy! I told my dad how I am now getting over 90mpg and he asked me whether my odometer was incorrect or not. :D

http://www.mileagetracker.org/showBi...t=Create+Graph

As a side note: The gas in this tank was exxon 87.... it must have been bad gas because any more than 40-50% throttle and my bike would start pinging. It didn't bother me much though since i rarely ever use that much throttle.

Now its time to back this one up with the next tank! Stay tuned.

wolfraven 06-22-2009 11:02 PM

Holy crud! Congrats! That's awesome!

MetroMPG 06-22-2009 11:21 PM

Wow - that pic will definitely do. As will the 100 mpg! Congrats again.

MetroMPG 06-22-2009 11:22 PM

Spotted your folded-in mirrors. :)

theycallmeebryan 06-22-2009 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 111618)
Spotted your folded-in mirrors. :)

Actually, i fold in my mirrors like that when i park the bike in the parking lot. If i dont, people seem to always bump into them for some reason.

When I am riding, the right side mirror stays folded in (because i never need to use it), and the left mirror i adjust so i can see out of it while tucked.

Did you spot anything else though? ;)

sprkthead2 06-26-2009 11:15 PM

Cool, I have a Ninja250 also. They are great bikes and great on gas.

The Atomic Ass 07-01-2009 09:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theycallmeebryan (Post 108543)
As a side note: The gas in this tank (from 6-15 to 6-22) was exxon 87.... it must have been bad gas because any more than 40-50% throttle and my bike would start pinging. It didn't bother me much though since i rarely ever use that much throttle.

That's the kinda gas you want for good FE... I wish I could find some around here. :rolleyes:

jonathan150cc 07-02-2009 07:53 AM

TheycallmeBryan,

Why not just go with a single bar-end mirror instead of the factory wings?
I had an '03 and never did much care for the look of those mirrors anyway. A single bar-end would have much less total front end mass than even one factory mirror.

theycallmeebryan 07-02-2009 11:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jonathan150cc (Post 113385)
TheycallmeBryan,

Why not just go with a single bar-end mirror instead of the factory wings?
I had an '03 and never did much care for the look of those mirrors anyway. A single bar-end would have much less total front end mass than even one factory mirror.

I was never really fond of bar end mirrors simply because of functionality. I am 6'1'' and the bar end mirrors would make me look almost straight down to check my rear view.

I have no problem with the look of the mirrors; I think they look fine. Functionally, they work great. They are right out infront of me within my view so i dont have to really move my head to check the mirrors. They do a much better job of showing the view directly behind me than the mirrors on my ducati 900 do. A lot of other sport bikes are the same way where the mirrors only show the rear side views.

To each his own i guess ;)

theycallmeebryan 07-02-2009 11:51 AM

Tank ending on 06-30-09: 97.8 mpg!

Was stuck in traffic on the highway a few times because of people rushing down to the shore. Tried my best to EOC and DWB in traffic as much as i could, but i think it took a little hit in mpg from that.


I want to experiment on the effect of my body on FE at the speeds that i am riding at. So with this tank i currently am on, i am not going to tuck at all, but rather sit up in a nice comfortable position. The reason being is that i have some lower back problems and the tucking strains my lower back after a long time. Thats what years of competitive soccer in the goal keeper position does to you! :thumbup:

janvos39 07-02-2009 01:22 PM

If I would tuck like you ,my back and neck would hurt too. Reason for my seat upright on the Suzuki Burgman is comfort. I probably count some more years than you. I am very interested to see how your full comfortable FE will figure. If your riding speeds etc.stay the same maybe the difference in Cd*A can be calculated?

theycallmeebryan 07-02-2009 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by janvos39 (Post 113428)
If I would tuck like you ,my back and neck would hurt too. Reason for my seat upright on the Suzuki Burgman is comfort. I probably count some more years than you. I am very interested to see how your full comfortable FE will figure. If your riding speeds etc.stay the same maybe the difference in Cd*A can be calculated?

My neck never hurts. The only other thing besides my back that gets a little strained is my feet. This is because when i tuck, my legs push down on the pegs a little harder and i feel a little more pressure in my hamstrings and bottoms of my feet. The thing is, the position of my tuck really is decently comfortable, and i can usually withstand it as far as taking trips to see my girlfriend at college (like 75 miles). I guess the fact that i'm off school and working extra as well as taking summer classes, i'm riding the bike a lot every day. Maybe the constant use every day has put a toll on my back.

If i can still achieve 90mpg sitting upright, i will probably never tuck again. 90mpg is great anyway and the 10 extra mpg i may achieve from tucking really doesn't justify discomfort.

MetroMPG 07-02-2009 06:16 PM

Finally got this onto the EM home page.

Also updated the thread title from 94.1 to 101.5 mpg.

theycallmeebryan 07-02-2009 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MetroMPG (Post 113471)
Finally got this onto the EM home page.

Also updated the thread title from 94.1 to 101.5 mpg.

Really appreciate the support !! :thumbup:

eco_generator 07-02-2009 10:11 PM

Awesome job. Makes me want to start looking at bikes again!

Christ 07-02-2009 10:14 PM

Hell, I'd trade Cara for a newer Ninja 250, or even a couple 50-60CC Scooters! *Something that the wife and I could drive around together, that we don't need "M" licenses for.*

wolfraven 07-02-2009 11:27 PM

Already saving for a Ninja :D

derangedhermit 07-06-2009 10:23 AM

I see some minor aero mods that will help a bit, if you care to do them. Putting on flush mount turn signals front and rear. Removing the blocks on the fairing that carry the side reflectors and using reflective tape, like 3M Solas, will help (and you can increase your visibility, too). Then just look for other things sticking into the wind - pillion pegs, the loop at the rear of the seat, etc -and decide if you need them or not. Also look for details you can clean up - leading edge of the windshield, things on the bars, position of brake lines, horn, etc.

Cutting an inch off each end of your bars will probably reduce your frontal area.

The biggest reasonable aero mod would be your clothing - time for some tight leathers! Or at least try to make yourself smoother to the wind.:D

I read your post about gearing changes - all motorcycles, no matter how powerful, lose speed at constant throttle when you sit up at 70 mph. You are already geared toward maximizing mileage, but it might be worthwhile going a little either way to look for a sweet spot, or at least to chart what difference it makes.

You might try to reduce drivetrain frictional losses - one grade thinner synthetic oil, carefully aligned drive sprockets and well-cleaned and lubed chain.

Congrats on what you have accomplished so far.

dcb 07-06-2009 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by derangedhermit (Post 114009)
...You are already geared toward maximizing mileage, but it might be worthwhile going a little either way to look for a sweet spot, or at least to chart what difference it makes...

It's just that sprockets cost money, so some guesswork is in order. But in pretty much every vehicle on the road, a step towards taller gearing is a step in the right direction.

derangedhermit 07-06-2009 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dcb (Post 114015)
It's just that sprockets cost money, so some guesswork is in order. But in pretty much every vehicle on the road, a step towards taller gearing is a step in the right direction.

Good point. tcmb has 14 and 15 fronts, and 45 and 39 rears. He has tried:
45/14=3.21
45/15=3.00
39/15=2.60

He could try:
39/14=2.79
for free, getting back a little torque, at an unknown cost (if any) in mpg.

A front sprocket is $10-$15. If a 16T will fit on the bike, he can try 39/16=2.44. Since he is rarely going over 1/2 throttle with 2.60, there's a good chance he will find it OK.


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