1200 horsepower, 35mpg Mustang
 

I was fortunate enough to go on Drag Week and hang out with Mike Woods, and I can tell you this car is for real. He was on an 800hp tune when he ran the 9.91 pass, but there is a lot more left in the car. The crazy part is that he was running at 2200rpm down the freeway, and with that diesel is happiest (mpg-wise) at about 1600rpm. I think 40+mpg is possible, and when it's dialed in, it should run high 8s at 160mph in the quarter mile. Has to be some kind of hp per mpg record :thumbup:

Speedy Racer: Fastest diesel-powered street-legal car in the world : Big Country : Abilene Reporter-News

LOL... and they say you have to choose between HP or efficiency, one or the other... electronics can do sooo much that standard wrench turning can't.. I love it.

At first it sounds fake, but I have seen a few trucks running 10s in the 1/4 and are still dailey drivers with turbo diesel 6's.

My 12 second Neon has gotten a best of 32+ while a V8 GTO buddy and a few 12 second Vette get high 20s....not to mention a fully loaded SRT8 Chrysler 300 that is also a dailey driver getting 10s in the 1/4 and 27 mpg with his nearly 5000 lbs of wt.

WoW! That is sooo coool!

Heh! And this comes from a (ahem) Honda CiViC driver... :D

Mustang and CiViC owners are eternal, immutable enemies - for those that don't know!

Here's (an enhanced) pic, before it disappears off that site:

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...7&d=1227451341

Attachment 2217

If I'm not mistaken...

There aren't any intake manifold or exhaust headers on those things!

Is that correct?!?!?

There are a couple issues I have with this.
1. It is a mistake to only look at highway numbers. All the manufacturers are doing that now on the commercials but it is not a realistic, nor entirely honest.

2. There's no substance to that article. Who has independently verified any mpg claims? People making claims are a dime a dozen (see fancy spark plug threads).

3. Aside from getting everyones naughty bits excited, what's the point? Ok, maybe that one is rhetorical :)

Wow.. way to make my "naughty bits" go limper than a worm on a hook... lol.

Normally, that's all you have to go on, is what others say... and the EPA estimates that are quoted in commercials are almost always wrong anyway... even before I knew what EPA estimates were, I was beating them consistently.

I can agree with not believing outrageous claims without substantiating proof, but the odds of hundreds of people reporting claims like this without any seemly background as related to each other (no way to make the story up together) are not very high.

It's kinda like judicial court... if 400 "witnesses" say they saw you do it, and they're all from different parts of the country, with no personal interaction between them, you're guilty.

That's my opinion, honest as it is.

In defense of the OP and anyone else who might make these claims, I've personally seen cars running mid 10s to low 12's and still pulling down 30-39 mpg average... probably 64/36 mix, highway preference, due to the area I live in... it's mostly highway, open stretches of road, 45-55mph limits, no red lights/stop signs.

My own Civic has about 120HP (estimated), and I can drive it like an idiot all day long, and still get 34 MPG... for those not in the know, that means that the car has 30% more HP than it came with, and still better than EPA estimates, both old and new.

This article is very misleading.
Speedy Racer: Fastest diesel-powered street-legal car in the world : Big Country : Abilene Reporter-News

He is NOT running 1200 hp and getting 35 mpg. On the highway the nitrous system is not running. The diesel computer is dialing back the wastegate on the turbo to an economy mode. When he goes racing, he UPs the boost big time and turns on the nitrous big time.

On the highway I would be surprised if he is producing 250 hp.

What the article doesn't say, says a lot more than what is says.

I think the 35 MPG is a lot more believable than the 1200 hp. Dave is getting 27 out of his super duty and trucks are bricks with huge frontal areas.

For those of you who know nothing of modern performance diesels, the things that they do to make more power also make them more efficient as well, such as advancing the timing and increasing the injection pressures and diesel already run very lean under light loads. Because diesels effectively knock to run they are not octane limited, you can keep pouring the fuel in as long as you can supply enough o2 until they bust. There are more than a few 800 hp diesels on the street from the big 3 right now.

I was trailing Mike on drag week in a rental car, and I can tell you he's averaged 33mpg twice over different states and this was including his dragstrip passes. His nitrous system was setup for about 200 extra hp, so the Mustang was about 600hp on a street tune with no nitrous. Still faster than any of my piles. Here's a video of him crusin'....I have the rental car floored trying to catch him...LOL

http://i157.photobucket.com/albums/t...h_IMG_0003.jpg

Cobra, I thought I mentioned earlier that the ECU was controlling the engine to make it have 1200 HP or 35 MPG... maybe that wasn't clear.

Obviously you're not going to run 1200 HP on the street and still get 35mpg... but you (generalized, not YOU specifically) fail to equate that the 1200 HP is also at full throttle, and the highest power building point in the engine's rev range, which wouldn't be touched (normally) on the street.

For instance, if the engine built 1200 HP at 3200 RPM (not at all uncommon for a truck diesel, to have a power range so low, and extremely long gears), chances are, on the street, he's minus the funny gas, slightly detuned, and never actually hitting his max power range (probably driving around at not much more than half throttle, shifting under 2800).

It IS quite possible, especially on a ECU-tuned setup, to have both high HP and high MPG figures. Since most anyone that tunes ECU's can set them up to have multi-map features, which can be changed at the flip of a switch.

His car is OBD-2 diesel, so the banks six-shooter (name?) or the BullyDog diesel tuner could more than well do it for him, as a piggy back system.

He's running a stand-alone computer in that Mustang from a company that's based over in Europe somewhere. But yes, Volker (the guy who was tuning it) mentioned that he could put a lean spot in the rpm map where he spent his time cruising so he could get better mpg. Mike's still a drag racing guy though, so fuel economy was kind of a side benefit for him. Besides, 1200hp is pretty unusable on the street. With 600-700hp in a light car, you can still spin the tires at freeway speeds.

how do you put a "lean spot" on a diesel?

lean tuning @ low load cells?

A "leaner spot" would be more accurate I guess.

Anyway, at $50,000 why not go for a DIY hybrid? Not that I'd expect this guy to, since I'm guessing it's free publicity and he doesn't do that sort of stuff, but it'd undoubtedly be cheaper in the long run and just as powerful.

Bwahahahaha!

OMG!!! Thank you!

That's the best laugh I've had in weeks - and nobody knows what I'm laughing at - which makes it even funnier!!!

Ouch!

STOP IT WILL YOU? My sides hurt... :D

Digging up an old thread per recent news:

I'll let Mike tell it himself:

Friday: It rained last night and the ground and parking lot are wet. We pump 12 gallons of Hyperfuels, Inc. “Bio/Synthetic fuel” into the GT’s tank. This stuff is like magic, with tons of BTU’s and no ugly smoke. We calculate the fuel mileage and get 45.4 MPG, the new Hyperfuels BioBlend should push us over the 50 MPG mark on the return trip, we expect great things in the future using this blend. The GT starts and happily purrs down the last stretch of highway on its way to the famous Texas Mile.

We get in the gate and search for the registration tent so we can get started. They direct us to the driver’s meeting that is already underway. We get all of the instructions and get to make a drive through so we will be familiar with the course.

I make a last minute inspection of the car before I blast off on the first run. Unfortunately I smell differential grease when checking the air pressure in the right rear tire. The bearing seal is leaking, AGAIN! (see my blog from Hot Rod Drag Week) Greg and I quickly remove the wheel and take the axle out, the bearing is good but the seal is leaking like crazy. Instead of trying to replace the bearing I decide a liberal dose of ugly orange silicone will have to do.

Greg hooks up the laptop to the NX Boost Reference Nitrous Controller and checks the tune-up. He programs in a little more nitrous at the launch and a nice smooth ramp as the boost increases.

I check out my safety gear and get ready to head for staging. There is a strong tail wind blowing and the temperature is cool but I am still sweating inside this fire suit. I have never held a drag car at WOT for a whole mile, even though I have gone 199.90 MPH in a dragster before somehow it feels more dangerous to do this in my street legal DuraMax GT. The track official motions me forward and I am getting ready to test the GT and me!

Greg activates the video cameras (sort of, he gets 1 of three turned on) and I move forward toward the official starter. No burn out here, just pull up and let it rip. I hit the throttle and start banging the B&M ratchet shifter; one, twice, three times, now the lock-up converter switch, and finally the Gear Vendors Overdrive unit. The car is pulling like crazy and I see the ¼ mile marker whiz by, then the ½ mile marker disappears. This thing is flying! Then that instant sinking feeling, what happened, no power, the engine just quit!!!!!!! Now I’m just coasting as I see the ¾ mile marker streak by out of the corner of my right eye, then the finish line. I pull the chute out of instinct and wait for it to hit, it seems like forever and I can see the turnoff cones coming up fast, bam it finally blossoms and I hit the brakes. The turn off is easy but I am distracted by what has happened to the engine and the car starts to buck violently, I forgot to unlock the converter, DUH! Then it occurs to me that the Gear Vendors is still engaged as well, hit the button, QUICK! Finally I have all the buttons and switches in their proper positions and the car coasts to a smooth stop. I get out, grab the chute and stuff it in the passenger seat. Now for the moment of truth, will the GT start and run? I hit the Painless wiring starter switch and to my surprise the engine lights and idles without protest, I drop it in gear and head for the timing deck to see how fast I went, coasting the last ¼ mile. The slip is handed through the rolled down window and to my amazement it reads 175.230!

Back to me (JQmile) now:

Yup, 175.23mph in the mile coasting, and 45.4 mpg!

bull ****

People don't understand diesels say things like this.

I have people tell me my car doesn't get 50 mpg, or my buddies duramax doesn't run 14's with just a chip and some minor mods.

First off, take everything you know about gas engines and throw it out the window.

The same engine can run lean, and get great mpg, or it can run rich, very rich and make huge amounts of torque.

A diesel does not care about AFR. It doesn't care about Octane or spark knock. They run very high compression, which helps make more HP and better gas mileage.

Diesel do not have throttling loses like gas engines, there are no throttles. They run very high compression, which helps make more HP and better gas mileage.

And finally, diesel fuel has more energy per gallon than gasoline.

Its honestly a common misconception...

The computer uses a fuel table that consists of rpm on the X axis and Pressure on the Y axis, with fuel flow amounts in each cell. There is no spark plugs with diesel, so there is no timing table.

So essentially, you can have 1 tune that is calibrated for max economy when crusing around. Once you introduce boost pressure (IE: you step on the pedal and introduce load), the computer is calibrated to pump certain amounts of fuel at whatever cell in the table the engine is operating at during that moment.

The diesel has a turbo. This means the engine can be spun from idle to redline without producing any boost pressure (if there is little to no load). Without boost pressure, this engine is making a LOT less torque and horsepower than these numbers you are seeing. This simply means the engine uses a lot less fuel cruising around than it would require when boost pressure is introduced. Thats what is great about turbo applications.

Even though it may produce 800 some hp and and 1500 some ftlb of torque, it is producing it at max load with probably over 30psi of boost pressure (probably up in the 50's actually). He isnt driving around using 800hp all the time.

This is exactly how the aftermarket computer in my Turbo Buick works, except there is also an ignition timing table to deal with. I can cruise around tuned for maximum economy, but as soon as i get on it and boost pressure builds.... well, it uses lots of fuel and makes lots of power :thumbup:

Are these 800+hp deisel tunes useful for anything more than a drag strip? ie, could a road race car be deisel-swapped and tuned for 600-800hp without nitrous/propane and survive a 3 hour race, or even a 20 minute sprint?

Any idea what the relative fuel usage is for a 600hp diesel vs a 600hp gas V8? Since there is higher compression and higher btu/gal, i'm wondering if this would be an enduro-racer's dream. Fuel up twice when the other guys are fueling 3 times means you win the race.

Wait a tick... my favourite race car ever is a diesel... *wake up Matt!*

Audi's wonderful TDI ALMS monster. After hearing all the other cars raging by at 110+dB, it sends chills down your spine when the Audi whispers past with a beautiful soft turbo sound... mmmm... I watched these guys twice at Mosport - saw it lose a rear quarter to a DHL Porche and still win the race.

Browser Warning

Audi has used this diesel combination very well over the past few years!

Too late Taylor, i already woke up and answered my own question!

Now the real question... Since I'm selling my Honda race car for temporary funds... what diesel car should i prep for racing next time I'm able... hmmmm...

Volkswagen Touareg SUV Review - Edmunds.com

I remember seeing one of these 553 ft lb sleepers run a low 14 seconds at Indy a couple of years ago.

I can't imagine the budget required to run a boosted and tuned TAURAG in a 3-hour enduro... I'd have to mortgage my house twice just to build up that beast.

A 1.9 TDI like in my car, has a stock peak power output of more or less 100 hp at the wheels. Slap on a bigger turbo, bigger holes, bigger pump, intake, IC, exhaust and a tune and you get a 200 hp/350 ft lb daily driver still capable of getting 50 mpg on the highway. But you know if you have such a car you will not be hitting 50 mpg tanks. It would kind of defeat the purpose you've spent so much money on.

For the price of all that work, i could just buy a car that has 200hp and call it a day.

Matt if you are into racing. . .just build one. ground up. Aim for sub 1300 lbs and any 4-door saloon engine with new internals and a little boost would be enough to crush most of your competition. If you really wanted to go all out. . .think Atom or Caparo T1, use an H22a new rods, get a custom 5 valve head(or get a VW 5 valve head and drill new bolt holes) Boost it, take the AC off use a second radiator and you're likely looking at something with oh. . .600+ Hp/ton or 500ish ft-lb torque/ton(The other vehicles mentioned weigh 1.5 tons so divide out that extra weight and then compare on a /ton basis).

So thats a duramax in a mustang.. OK lets see a duramax in crx shell, sure it would be a total reconstruction but dang that would fly..

The 35 mpg is totally believable, the 1200 HP, yeah I think its doable, wont last to long but thats the norm for stip cars.. I will wait in anticipation for him to prove this and cant wat to see the local street racers dropping diesels in there tuners :)

I have to say.. very very cool... can you tell I'm a diesel nut

The parts are <2k total if you dig a bit. I just wanted to point out it's possible to double the power output of a diesel without affecting mileage much.

Diesel is probably the way to go for enduro racing.

If you're going to be heavily modifyin the engine biofuels(ethanol) actually can produce alot more power, but they have to be completely retuned. E-85 really sucks when its run on a flex fueler because those are designed to pretend its gas. . .and its not. E-85 can be compressed much much more than gasoline without risking any expensive problems.

For sheer convenience gasoline is probably still the way to go for short races(sub 200 miles).

All things considered in terms of cost I think a ~3-4+L engine would be the most cost effective way to make power, especially considering that engines ~1.5-2x the size only weigh ~25-50% more than some of the HO fours. We aren't getting to the point where mileage sucks because the engine is too large to gear down, but we also don't have to run obscene boost or swap internals to get to ~500hp. IMO of course. :turtle:

The point of running the H22 was that it would be in an extremely light package. If the engine makes up 40% of your total weight it matters alot(I'm working a custom build now and its definitely going to be at least 60% of my total weight). I think my example was for a 1400 ish #er, in which case even increasing 1/4 of the engine weight bumps up your entire car weight by about 7%.

If you're going to Race it (Enduro or otherwise) a custom could weigh as little as 800 lbs and a supercharger or turbo weighs alot less than 100-200 lbs. Not to mention some of the new guts for increased power are lighter than their stock counterparts so it runs more FE outside of the boost curve(or under super off the switch).

As far as pure cost goes. . .An imported Toyota 92-96 engine is about as cheap as they come with complete driveline. Go rip a turbo or supercharger from a junk yard and fab up your own stuff. Buy the new guts for about 2/3 of the price difference of it and your 3-4 liter engine and you have something very light very eco friendly and equivalent power when you want it.

Searching indicates that an H22 is about 400lbs, so going w/ something like a 3VZ-FE like ya mentioned would add an extra liter but only about 70lbs, nowhere near ~100-200lbs. For that matter, 300+hp N/A is supposedly possible, so going from ~200hp/1400lbs to ~300hp/1470lbs, and whatever the turbocharged equivalent is, certainly seems worthwhile from the perspective of power to weight, not to mention the lower engine cost.