2 Cylinder Metro?
 

Hi all,

I just picked up my first Metro, soon to be followed by 2 more next week. This one is a '94 2 door manual that has spent it's entire life in Central FL, so it is absolutely rust-free. I got it fairly cheap because #3 rod bearing is gone, and has scored the crank badly. I will be swapping a good engine into it from an ugly, but clean '91, and handing it over to my wife for her commute. I plan on using the '91 as a test vehicle. OK.....I'll get to the point now. I am kicking around the idea of removing the piston and rod from the damaged motor, and putting it back together, using only 2 cylinders. I would then install this motor in the test car. I think I will have to weld up the oiling port in the crank on #3 journal, and there will be other issues, I'm sure. Any thoughts, comments, ridicule, or bets appreciated.

Starting with a 3 cyl? I predict it'll shake like crazy and you won't enjoy running it. However, if it was a 4 and you pulled 2 out, I think it would work.

I wouldn't do it. By removing the rod/piston you are throwing the whole assembly out of balance you could end up destroying more in the end. And the last time I looked Metro parts keep going up and up in price. I would not take the chance, they are great little cars.

True......I hadn't thought of the balance issue. It looks like the crank will be fine after I have it turned, just something that had crossed my mind. I truly appreciate the replies.

I would have the crank fixed. A Metro will not run well on two cyliners. When I bought mine number two was out. I was running on one and three. The motor ran real bad. It shook violently and had no power at all. It was all I could do to get it home, and I only got 34 MPG doing it. The 34MPG was due to the motor still sending fuel to the down cyliner, but the motor was horribly off balanced.

If you want to mess around with two cylinder motors I would look at motorcycles

I'll second the notion of starting with a 4-cyl crank and cam to make a two-banger. I'd only do it if I was going to do some serious streamlining to reduce the power needed on the highway. A 3-cyl with an extra-mild cam and tall gears would probably be my preference for reduced power, though.
I used to prefer even numbers of cylinders except on radials, but now I realize that the inline 3 only stops one piston at a time, while fours stop all four at once.

My Metro was purchased with a dead cylinder also. It ran really bad, but still got 35MPG :)

I have nixed the two-cylinder idea, pulled the motor today and found most of #3 piston skirt in the pan. Cylinder looks good, though.....the only concern now is that I have minor scoring in the cam bores. I'll have to see just how bad it really is. Thank you all for your input...probably stopped me from doing something stupid.

i fear the worst in cutting a cylinder from the mix... engineers said there should be three... they built -tested-retested with three... you were built with two feet(i hope) what would happen if we discarded one?:rolleyes: either way i wish you the best of luck.

If the motor ends up being toast or too expensive to fix and you have a reasonable machine shop nearby find a running but junked Japanese mini truck like you see on the side of the road as OFF ROAD/FARM USE with a 660cc 2 cylinder get a flexplate adapter, mount it up and off you go, albeit probably not very quickly.

Good Luck

But using that logic we should not do any modifications to our vehicles thus making most of EcoModder forums in the wrong. ;)

Engineers are not omniscient
 

[QUOTE=Kaneda;58659]i fear the worst in cutting a cylinder from the mix... engineers said there should be three... they built -tested-retested with three.

Engineers design cars to satisfy a list of common requirements. If mine are different, I can take that into account and change things to suit. I learned enough engineering at the library to get applause from a graduating class of "real" engineers.

Ohhhhhhh.... too bad. And it's not a stupid idea. If you had the time and energy to experiment with it, I think it would be a fun project! On the other hand, if you are just trying to get back on the road, a burned rod journal is almost always repairable, even if the crank is cracked. Either way you just and have it mag'd and reground. If needed you salvage a replacement used rod or have the burned one rebuilt. Or you buy a used crank and one rod if the crank is cracked and/or the rod is beyond rebuilding (any automotive crank grinding shop can help you with a visual inspection, precision measurement, and magnaflux test, everyday stuff for them).

Your 2 cylinder idea has a few things going for it, and plenty of precidence.

It may very well shake from the out of balance condition, but then again, my 3 cylinder metro already seems out of balance and it runs perfect ;) Seriously though, a 2 cylinder may not be as bad as some would think, you would have to try it. I don't know if you would have to change anything on the intake side, the metro is common throttle body efi, the ECU might take away enough fuel so it could run properly with only 2/3 the displacement. If not, you might be able to reduce the fuel pressure slightly to bring 2 cylinders on a 3 cylinder system in to stoichiometric range.

Precidence: A completely different application than ecomodding I know, but an example none the less; There have been many, many salt flats racers who have pulled one rod/piston assembley to be able to race in a smaller engine displacement class... at the track no less! This old timer I was talking with said you just drop the oil pan and remove the rod cap, wrap the rod journal with leather and a hose clamp (to plug the oiling hole). Pull the head and remove the piston and rod out the top, then disable the valve train for the dead cylinder such that it's valves never open.

If I were expecting to convert a 3 cylinder Suzuki for a commuting experiment, I'd machine a non-rotating bob weight that clamps to the rod journal, similar to what Engine Balancer's use. I make it the same weight as a Metro piston and rod assy, and non-rotating so it would seal up the oil hole with no gasket or seal, just metal on metal. I'd grind the two lobes off the cam, which sounds to me like the easiest way to disable an OHC engine's vales train for one cylinder.

With that 'dead hole' not pumping dead air (no piston remember), I would imagine it being much more smooth operator than say, pulling a plug plug wire on your 1 liter metro engine. If I'm not mistaken, the journal rotation is such that you could select cylinders that allow it to fire every 360 degrees of crank rotation. Even if I'm wrong, you aren't making enough power where you need to worry about cracking the crank from the unbalanced torsional load. Again, you'd have to try it. my 2 cents

Metromizer,

Thanks for the comments, I just dropped the block off at the machine shop today to be bored. The guy says that he can source a crank kit fairly cheap. I will be building this car for my wife to drive, so I have decided to keep this motor stock. Definitely something I may try in the future, though, on an uglier car. I missed out on the ugly Metro that I was going to use as a test vehicle. After driving 50 miles to pick it up, the owner could not produce the title. If I ever find another Metro, I will be looking hard at the Kubota 24hp 3 cylinder.

It would have absolutely no power. You would have a hard time keeping it idling, it would shake like crazy, you wouldn't be able to get above 45mph with the foot to the floor. Not fun.

Try it, you might have better results. At least then you will know!

It would have absolutely no power. You would have a hard time keeping it idling, it would shake like crazy, you wouldn't be able to get above 45mph with the foot to the floor. Not fun.

Try it, you might have better results. At least then you will know!



A diesel option is something I have been thinking about. There are plenty of sub-$1000 Metros out here. A couple can be had for $650-750. hmmmm

That might have more perseved power than the stock 3 cylinder gas engine. I live in California, where we have bi-annual emissions testing, on a chassis dynomometer no less! I'm jealous, swapping in a 3 cylinder Kubota sounds like fun, but doesn't work for anyone in the SF Bay Area <unless you're willing to fly under the radar, which I can't do>.

Let us know how your engine rebuild goes in the wife's car

Yeah, we can get away with quite a bit here in FL.....but emission testing is coming someday, I imagine. I think you are right about perceived power, with the torque that the Kubota has.

i wonder if you could get a good NA VW 1.6 to swap in a Metro?
It would be a heavy beast compared to the 3cyl but they get 50+ in the heavy Jetta so...???

Oh yeah....I have dreams of stuffing a late model VW TDI drivetrain into one of the old boxy Chevy sprint hatchbacks. Then build some old school steel flares, welded onto the fenders to cover the track difference.:)

I've got a similar plan. Starting with a 1.6TD and throwing it into a 1990 civic hatchback. I have both cars, I'm just saving up to so that I can get the swap done in one quick change. A similar project was done with a 1.6 into a crx... Unfortunately the thread died but he did get it installed. VWvortex Forums: 1985 vw diesel swap into honda crx
I figure that if basjoos can get 70 mpg's out of a similar car that was epa rated at 49 with a less efficient engine I should be getting some nice numbers right off. And then add in some extreme aero modding and you have one high millage machine

Nice......that should make for a very efficient vehicle, I would think. I sure would like to hear more about that car in the link you sent. Seems like it is always the last little details that kill a project.....Keep us posted, I know I'll follow your project closely.

I think I should be getting into this winter some time. I had to pull apart my intended motor so I could get my daily driver going again. Right now I'm working on getting the dang thing running again. But once it's running again I'll get it transplanted while I rebuild a 1.6td to install.

I wonder if you could make the two-cylinder idea work if you got a crank and cam custom-made? Instead of having a crank throw every 120 degrees, you'd have one every 180 degrees. Similarly, you'd have the cam lobes made to actuate the valves 180 degrees of cam rotation apart. Quite pricey to have them custom made!!

Perhaps you could have a four-cylinder crank and/or cam cut down? Still not all that cheap, though.

Hmm... Just trying to brainstorm...

-soD

Well that's the thing, by the time you do the engineering and spend the money on all those custom parts, you could have made trans and motor mount adapters for a suitable existing 2 cyl transplant and be out on the road driving already!

Who has a picture of a 3 cylinder metro crank handy? Could you post it here?