Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Off-Topic Tech
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 04-12-2016, 06:10 PM   #1 (permalink)
Just cruisin’ along
 
jcp123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,183

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 46.55 mpg (US)

Shaggin Waggin - '14 Chrysler Town + Country
90 day: 22.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 66
Thanked 200 Times in 170 Posts
MAF clean or replace?

So, this is on my Echo. It's a 2000, auto trans 260k miles. A brief history, my in-laws bought the car new and put the first 200k on it in about 8 years. It became my wife's and then mine. Maintenance was horribly neglected, it ran very poorly. Among the things I did was to clean the MAF. It was dirty and popping a p0171, which that and a set of plugs cured. The car runs very, very well now, and were it not for my ultragauge, I wouldn't know anything was wrong at all.

I have noticed a problem with my fuel trims, which my UltraGauge supports on this vehicle. At idle I have good values, +3 or so on my long term. However, as the revs rise, so do my long term trims. At freeway speed, it's running anywhere from +13 to +17. I know just enough to be dangerous, and it looks like a classic MAF problem. There are no codes and as mentioned, the car runs very, very well. Should I attempt a more thorough MAF cleaning, or snag a new Denso MAF for $75? The car is all beat to hell so I'd like to avoid spending $75...

__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT - dead 2/23
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - My DD, for now
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 04-12-2016, 06:17 PM   #2 (permalink)
Administrator
 
Daox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Germantown, WI
Posts: 11,203

CM400E - '81 Honda CM400E
90 day: 51.49 mpg (US)

Daox's Grey Prius - '04 Toyota Prius
Team Toyota
90 day: 49.53 mpg (US)

Daox's Insight - '00 Honda Insight
90 day: 64.33 mpg (US)

Swarthy - '14 Mitsubishi Mirage DE
Mitsubishi
90 day: 56.69 mpg (US)

Daox's Volt - '13 Chevrolet Volt
Thanks: 2,501
Thanked 2,585 Times in 1,553 Posts
I wouldn't bother. Your O2 sensor should be determining air/fuel ratio unless you're in open loop when you see the long term trims go high. So, unless you have bad mileage to support that it warrants replacing, I'd leave it.
__________________
Current project: A better alternator delete
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2016, 06:34 PM   #3 (permalink)
Just cruisin’ along
 
jcp123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,183

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 46.55 mpg (US)

Shaggin Waggin - '14 Chrysler Town + Country
90 day: 22.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 66
Thanked 200 Times in 170 Posts
True. I wish I could watch the O2 voltages better, but the data resolution is so poor, it's hopeless via the UG. Kinda wish I had a good scope lol.

Still, it bothers me that the trims are so high.
__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT - dead 2/23
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - My DD, for now
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2016, 09:51 PM   #4 (permalink)
Master EcoModder
 
Stubby79's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Victoria, BC
Posts: 1,747

Firefly EV - '98 Pontiac Firefly EV
90 day: 107.65 mpg (US)

Little Boy Blue - '05 Toyota Echo
90 day: 33.35 mpg (US)

BlueZ - '19 Nissan 370Z Sport
90 day: 17.19 mpg (US)
Thanks: 75
Thanked 576 Times in 426 Posts
Will it run without the MAF? I don't know about your echo, but the engines I am familiar with also have a MAP sensor, for comparison and backup. It'll throw a code (which you can clear after) but it might let you see if it'll stop enriching so much without it.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2016, 10:46 PM   #5 (permalink)
Just cruisin’ along
 
jcp123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,183

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 46.55 mpg (US)

Shaggin Waggin - '14 Chrysler Town + Country
90 day: 22.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 66
Thanked 200 Times in 170 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stubby79 View Post
Will it run without the MAF? I don't know about your echo, but the engines I am familiar with also have a MAP sensor, for comparison and backup. It'll throw a code (which you can clear after) but it might let you see if it'll stop enriching so much without it.
I don't know if it will run sans MAF. My guess is that it will use a substitute value in something of a limp mode. I am not positive, but I am pretty sure it does not also have a MAP sensor. I'm a truck driver out on the road and a couple of days from home so I can't test tonight.
__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT - dead 2/23
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - My DD, for now
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2016, 08:37 AM   #6 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
How many miles are on the forward O2?
Messed up MAF and/or failing O2 a lot of times will not throw a code and reek all kinds of havoc.
Try cleaning the MAF since that is the cheapest quickest option, If that doesn't work replace the forward O2 sensor then if that still doesn't do it replace the MAF.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2016, 08:44 AM   #7 (permalink)
Just cruisin’ along
 
jcp123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,183

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 46.55 mpg (US)

Shaggin Waggin - '14 Chrysler Town + Country
90 day: 22.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 66
Thanked 200 Times in 170 Posts
No idea how many miles are on the O2. I'd bet it's most likely the factory unit (the plugs I replaced at 192k were so worn that I think they might have been factory plugs, just to give you an idea of how neglected this car had been). Anyhow, that's why I wish I had a scope. It would be nice to actually watch the O2 switching.
__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT - dead 2/23
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - My DD, for now
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2016, 12:11 PM   #8 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
Replace the O2.
People I know who are formally trained automotive mechanics, you know the kind who went to school for it for 2 years are fanatical about the O2 being changed out before 50,000 miles.
People in the know regard them as consumable items.

Save the old O2 until you can get a scope meter with high resolution and data log then you can always put it back in and study it later on, maybe even do an a-b-a test.
__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-19-2016, 12:22 AM   #9 (permalink)
Just cruisin’ along
 
jcp123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Rochester, NY
Posts: 1,183

Beater Echo - '00 Toyota Echo
90 day: 42.67 mpg (US)

Hondizzle - '97 Honda Civic DX
Team Honda
90 day: 46.55 mpg (US)

Shaggin Waggin - '14 Chrysler Town + Country
90 day: 22.56 mpg (US)
Thanks: 66
Thanked 200 Times in 170 Posts
Well, MAF was indeed dirty again. I don't know what to make of this. Seems like it's getting way too dirty way too quickly, but after cleaning the fuel trims are all clustering back to around 0. Won't have a good solid FE result for a while though (I only commute 100 miles each way, once a month).
__________________



'97 Honda Civic DX Coupe 5MT - dead 2/23
'00 Echo - dead 2/17
'14 Chrysler Town + Country - My DD, for now
'67 Mustang Convertible - gone 1/17
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to jcp123 For This Useful Post:
Daox (04-19-2016)
Old 04-19-2016, 12:46 AM   #10 (permalink)
Corporate imperialist
 
oil pan 4's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NewMexico (USA)
Posts: 11,175

Sub - '84 Chevy Diesel Suburban C10
SUV
90 day: 19.5 mpg (US)

camaro - '85 Chevy Camaro Z28

Riot - '03 Kia Rio POS
Team Hyundai
90 day: 30.21 mpg (US)

Bug - '01 VW Beetle GLSturbo
90 day: 26.43 mpg (US)

Sub2500 - '86 GMC Suburban C2500
90 day: 11.95 mpg (US)

Snow flake - '11 Nissan Leaf SL
SUV
90 day: 141.63 mpg (US)
Thanks: 269
Thanked 3,522 Times in 2,796 Posts
The air filter or piping is loose or has a crack.
If it has a crack then replace it.
If there is a loose connection seal it up with RTV. It works for air compressor air filters.

__________________
1984 chevy suburban, custom made 6.5L diesel turbocharged with a Garrett T76 and Holset HE351VE, 22:1 compression 13psi of intercooled boost.
1989 firebird mostly stock. Aside from the 6-speed manual trans, corvette gen 5 front brakes, 1LE drive shaft, 4th Gen disc brake fbody rear end.
2011 leaf SL, white, portable 240v CHAdeMO, trailer hitch, new batt as of 2014.
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com