2009 Diesel Jetta
 

Is anybody considering one of these as a new vehicle? I just did some reading up on it the preliminary reviews are fantastic. 50 state emissions compliant, tons of torque, I just wonder about reliability with it being the first in the diesel re-design and being delayed for "technical issues".

If I hadn't just bought a car last year I'd be looking into one, it's slated to be about the price of a high end civic (around $21k).

Any opinions?

Sources for some info

Jetta Article 1

Jetta Article 2

I like it. I want it.
ohh BTW high end civic, SI models are $23-24K or the Muegun[?]SI is $34K

I'd trade my Insight for one of those

Honda's turbo diesel is coming to the states next year.:thumbup:

I was thinking EX-L when I said high end I guess I should have been more specific :-) (thought process was the standards "civic" with a trim package)

I want to see how they run on Bio before I want one.
Will I buy one "new"? probably not.

The "technical details" that have delayed the launch are not on the basic engine components, but on the emissions systems (VW has been building diesels for a long time, so it should be reliable.) The problem has been that they can't meet our more-stringent air quality laws, and VW has failed a couple of times when they thought they finally had it dialed in. They will get there.

All diesels can run on ASTM D-6751 bio-diesel ... but that's not used fryer oil from the local KFC. You'll see pumps with B10, B20 or up to B100 (that's 10% bio, 20% bio and 100% biodiesel) in the next few years. The biodiesel is blended with petro diesel.

Biodiesel can be made from food sources (chicken fat from slaughterhouses, soy beans, etc.) or from non-food plants (Hawai'i is installing their first algae farm to produce biodiesel). One major advantage of biodiesel over other bio-fuels is that it can be stored, transported, piped and refined using the existing infrastructure.

If the car companies can finally make them clean enough, and they think they can now, bio-diesel may be the best bet we have to get off foreign oil (with the possible exception of breakthroughs in battery technology).

Not entirely true; one type of diesel catalyst is ruined by bio-diesel.

My VW runs on B80 whenever I can find it; and with a little luck will be running on home brew soon.

I thought the purpose of the ASTM spec was that it was functionally identical to the petrodiesel. Do you know which cars have the non-compatible cat?

I would hope that all the new cars have compatible engines! Its certainly something to check when making a decision.

VW only warranties up to B5... run anything higher and something goes wrong, you're not covered by the warranty

I can't find any information regarding the issue; so I think I will have to stack it up to a myth for the moment.

However I do swear that I have heard it more than once; so at least I'm not the only one spreading misinformation.

I'm surprised at the EPA mileage figures ... 29 / 40 isn't that good (although this is with the new way they calculate the numbers; the Prius gets only 48 / 45 under the new system and I've never gotten mileage that low in mine).

Others are saying that the new EPA tests don't accurately reflect diesels, and that they may have to modify them. I remember the old EPA numbers for the Prius were not reasonable but on the high side, something like 65 / 55 (the 55 mpg is reasonable; that's what I get if I drive the speed limit ... it drops to 49.5 mpg if I drive like the rest of the maniacs on the road).

I suspect a commuter will get closer to 50 mpg combined with the new Jetta.

Now if they would make a true econo car with a much lighter body, some aero mods like the guys do here, and a smaller engine we could get our 65 mpg commuter.

My "experience" with new EPA ratings is that larger vehicles are rated fairly or slightly optimistically; small vehicles are rated slightly low, and alt. vehicles are rated in worst case.
Just my observation; but given my earlier post regarding catalyst that might not be worth much.

I just did some quick googling and found plenty of articles where they say VW recommends only up to B5 in the US, although some of the links said they recommend up to B20 in Europe.

From a green standpoint, that makes these cars less desirable. If you can't get over 50 mpg, or good mileage using a green fuel, then you're better off with a gas/electric hybrid (from a green standpoint; the diesel at 45 mpg is still better than a gas engine at 28 mpg).

One article said the upcoming diesel / electric hybrids will be mandated to authorize the use of up to B100. They should be required to phase in the ability to use ASTM compliant biodiesel over the next 10 years or so.

I think you're right ... I found several articles about VW only recommending up to B5. AutoBlogGreen mentioned it, as does this article: Turbo Diesels Take on Hybrids and the Biodiesel Board (the national trade group) has a statement on their site at Biodiesel.org - Standards & Warranties that says manufacturer's use different recommendations, with most recommending up to B20.

Here's another article on biodiesel: http://www.autocar.co.uk/News/NewsAr...aspx?AR=233984 ... and it mentions that two manufacturer's have approved up to 30%, the HDi-engined Peugeot or Citroen. Not even Ford, who shares the Peugeot design in some of its diesels, will approve the B30 blend.

That's a huge nail in the coffin for me to consider a diesel vehicle. Since gas/electric hybrids emit less pollutants and get better mileage, they win on the "green" front. Diesel still has the most promise long term, but only when manufacturer's allow biodiesel.

Hello,

(these are my feelings and impressions on having the car since Friday, and maybe my wife's.)

We just purchased a 2009 VW Jetta Wagon TDI. We were replacing my totaled Subaru Outback wagon. We came to this decision after test driving the following cars: Honda Civic Hybrid, Toyota Camry Hybrid, Toyota Prius Hybrid, VW Jetta TDI, VW Jetta Wagon, VW Jetta Wagon TDI.

Why so many VW's? My wife bought a Jetta 10 years ago and we still have it. For several weeks, it was our only car. Dependable, reliable and at 105k, still doing well.

After a single test drive of the Civic Hybrid and the Camry Hybrid, we eliminated them, due to either lack of 'minimum' performance (my wife complaining about a hesitation on applying throttle). The Camry also had a 'large' car feel that my wife and I both complained about and I tend to describe as 'wallowing'.

The top two were the Jetta Wagon TDI and the Prius, but we wanted the Prius Touring and the dealer said it would have to be ordered and take 5 weeks to arrive.
Though there was a waiting list for the VW, those on it at first offer passed on this particular model, which we then 'checked out' and drove around, to make sure it would satisfy my wife and I for our needs during a day of running errands, going back and forth on our daily commute, etc.

This has to be the smartest thing the dealer does, as every time a dealer has offered this, I have ended up buying the car except once (funny enough, a Metro).

We returned to the dealership with the plan on sleeping on it and maybe coming back the next morning. It seems that someone on the waiting list called back and the dealer said I had first right of refusal, but if I gave him the keys, the guy on the waiting list already had money down, so it would not be there the next morning. After 45 minutes of gnashing of teeth and trying to think if this was the car for us, we decided to get it.

Even with snow, freezing rain and light snow, we are not sorry we made that decision.

We both really like the car and I will be driving the old Jetta and my wife will be driving the new Jetta TDI as our 'normal' cars. I tend to do most of the driving on long trips, but that may change as this is a very nice car.

The transmission (the 6spd DSG tiptronic) is something we both like. I appreciate my wife has an automatic and I like that I can control the gear changes, if I would like (either for performance or for MPGs; my Subaru was a manual). It is the smoothest and best at shifting at the right point automatic that I have ever driven. The 6 speeds just makes so much sense, I was always looking for a 6th gear on my Subaru at highway speeds.

The TDI has great torque and never has te feel of being 'under powered'.

I would have been happy owning a Prius, but my wife feels very comfortable with this new Jetta (probably from driving the older Jetta for 10 years).

If there are any questions, I will try to answer them, but I am still recovering from the accident that cost me the Subaru (broken thumb), so hopefully you understand with a full time job, taking classes, etc, that I may take a bit to respond.

I also hope to take some more pictures and post them.

Oh, and the delay, as from what I heard, was because VW thought the EPA numbers for MPG was very low and was trying to convince them to retest or something. I had heard this before going to the dealer (not dealer embellishment).

LDJ

LDJ -

I think the thing most members would love to see is, not surprisingly, your mileage. How about creating a garage entry & fuel log?

Sounds like a salesman with some "experience", ahem.

True or not, glad you're happy with the car.

Note: my reply below is part speculation, part observing tdiclub posts and reading between the lines. Once we get through another summer here in N.A. I think we'll know the biodiesel limitations of the 2009 tdis much more clearly.

While the fuel system in the 2009 TDIs can certainly handle biodiesel, and it will burn in the cylinder exactly as regular diesel, it still appears unwise to run pure bio in these VWs. The issue lies with the ECU controlled diesel particulate filter regeneration (DPF) period. When running regular diesel, soot will accumulate slowly in the DPF. After so many hours or miles of engine operation, the ECU triggers a special fueling strategy that basically dumps unburned fuel into the exhaust. The fuel collects in the DPF and raises the temperature high enough to burn off all accumulated soot. Basically a well controlled high temperature incineration of the soot, quite clean burning.

Unfortunately, with pure biodiesel, the DPF temperature during this regeneration period does not get hot enough to satisfy the value the ECU expects to see from the thermocouple mounted in the DPF. Apparently, anyway. This is not actually a problem whatsoever, but it triggers a fault code in the ECU. Biodiesel actually burns much cleaner with far less particulates than regular diesel, so potentially it will never clog up the DPF anyway. One other concern with bio is that when it dilutes the engine oil, it is far more detrimental to engine lubrication than regular diesel is. Supposedly. The fueling during DPF regeneration comes a post injection event (well after main injection) and thus washes the cylinder bores and ends up diluting the oil somewhat. However I havent seen any proof of danger from biodiesel here.

For what its worth, VW only approved B5 in ALL the earlier model TDIs also. My 2003 ALH TDI runs like its made for pure bio... I hate using reg. in the winter. I have my fingers crossed that the 09s can at least run a B50 mix safely.