2012 Vetter Fuel Economy Challenges
 

I am happy to announce the Schedule for 2012 Vetter Fuel Economy Challenges:

• Friday, May 4:* The Quail Motorcycle Gathering, Carmel, CA
• Saturday, June 1:* Washington State (specifics to be announced)
• Friday, July 20:* AMA Vintage Days, Mansfield Ohio

This is where we find out how we compare with each other in real driving conditions. As you can see, I am doing my best to be in your neighborhood.

Details will be posted here as they become available

Hi Craig, Thanks for posting the dates. I'll definitely be there for Carmel, probably for the Seattle meet and maybe Mid-Ohio. Las Vegas to Barstow was fun, hopefully that could be added to the calendar. Thanks again for all your great work in hosting the Challenges. Merry XMas , Vic

Just thinking out loud!

Wouldn't it be great if we had an event like this in Europe!

We have some quite advanced builders/modders here that would challenge the best in the USA.

We would need a central location (France?) and a late summer date that coincides with some "event" of interest.

Perhaps Craig could "syndicate" his format and regs for us to use, or nominate a proxy, or even fly over?

Anyone interested? What do you think Craig?

We are thinking the same. I would love to host a World Challenge. The problem is money. You and I - we Ecomodders - are in the business of living better on less energy. Most of what we do involves "consuming less". Spending less. We don't spend more. Traditional sponsors tend to be big, established concerns, that have existing money slated to promote and increase their sales. Whose sales would we increase?

Our potential sponsors are mostly struggling startups, like us Ecomodders. Our money and energy goes into dreaming and developing, not sponsoring.

We need to identify the sponsors who will help us ship our bikes back and forth across the pond... making the connection that helping us would increase their sales. Ideas?

It is possible.

Happy New Year

If we can find them, I will jump on it.

...question
 

[QUOTE=cvetter;276028]I am happy to announce the Schedule for 2012 Vetter Fuel Economy Challenges:

• Friday, May 4:* The Quail Motorcycle Gathering, Carmel, CA
• Saturday, June 1:* Washington State (specifics to be announced)
• Friday, July 20:* AMA Vintage Days, Mansfield Ohio

Hello Craig, So glad to see that you have posted the 2012 schedule and I am excited about it. I was checking my calendar and noticed that the Washington location, TBA, is listed as a Saturday June 1st. The calendar reads Friday is the 1st and Saturday is the 2nd....If you could clarify it for us that would be great...and i am so looking forward to it too! :thumbup:

May I also put my $.02 in for a suitable location..? The Tri-Cities (pasco/kennewick/richland), they have a lot of excellent roads and wide-open spaces for a nice competition like this(and it is only 2.5 hrs from my house, lol). It is pretty hot there that time of the year, so you should feel right at home, lol. :cool: We are very excited to see your progress through the winter with your friend's Ninja and the tail fairing you guys are making for it. Thanks for the updates, they're truly an inspiration to the rest of us.

A very special thanks Craig to you and Carol for all you guys do, it is noticed and much appreciated and we are grateful. Mike :{)

Thank you, Mike. Let me give you a peek at how these Challenges work. If the ride is on Saturday, we try to meet for dinner the night before at some local burger place to get to know each other. Then we spend the rest of the evening in the parking lot, looking over each other's machines, etc. I go over the schedule for the next day and review how we want it to work. Altho you seem to have a number of serious high mileage enthusiasts in the Pacific Northwest, I love it when normal bikes come for the Challenge, too because the results give us real mileage of the bikes people ride.

Sounds like we will be meeting Friday night, June 1. I am looking forward to the event.

Craig

:{)
 

Excellent Sir, I am so looking forward to it. I'll even ru a n Ad in our local paper to help promote it once you have picked a location... Whooo Hoooo! :thumbup:

Thanks again Craig! Mike :{)

A world challenge would be interesting. But I'd say it would point out that Europe has better motors available for economy. Like cars that get better fuel economy than my motorcycle along with more choices of readily available fuel sipping motorcycles.

Making out my schedule of events for the year. Will see if I can make it back up to Mid Ohio.

Thanks!!

Hi Craig, ref your point about a series sponsor for the Vetter Challenge, I would like to make the following suggestion,(even though I'm sue its something you must have considered).

Can't we get "The Discovery Channel" interested? They produce some excellent documentaries (of real merit) alongside the mildly entertaining crap. I'm sure the trials and tribulations of us ecomodders warrants as much airtime as the stupid antics of the average tattoo'd redneck burning up the planets resources.
Chances are your challenges would be more entertaining, cheaper to film, and be morally superior (which must count for something with a large multinational corporation with and an image to protect),than the existing chopper/hot rod output.
Even if we don't compete at present, there's bound to be a time when audiences "burn out" on chopper building.

Someone on this forum must know a "way in" - lets present a case for a real-life documentary series thats entertaining (without temper tantrums and breaking things), informative and fun. Who knows, we may catch the wave and wake up the world to what we already know - Detroit doesn't know it all!

Craig - if you film it, they will come!

Gotta stop now, that's my alarm clock going off.

what are the rules?
can I bring a three wheeler car/motorcycle?

the rules
 

Hi Drmiller, Here is the link to the Vetter Challenge rules : Vetter Challenge rules

A 3 wheeler is by definition is a motorcycle so yes, please enter. The HyperRocket ( a 3 wheeler ) was the 2010 Carmel Challenge winner. Craig even let a diesel car compete in the 2011 Ohio Challenge. The Vetter Challenge are a lot of fun and have inspired me to participate in " making history".
all the best, Low & Slow

Working towards a Vetter Trans-Atlantic Challenge
 

Regarding a Trans-Atlantic Challenge, I wonder if the TV producers have $$$ for this...

It is worth following up on and I will. Being picked to compete in a world Challenge - and have your expenses covered - would be a great incentive, wouldn't it?

Great idea, I think.

There will be three Vetter Challenges in the US in 2012. They are posted on my web page

I am a motorcyclist by birth. But I reserve the right to let in any serious Challenger, regardless the number of wheels. Be street legal.

Chapter 52 is just posted regarding the continuing project of streamlining a Ninja 250. It is a lot of work. I am doing all the hard work so you will be able to make yours from my plans.

Thanks... Craig

Hey fellow spud...we'd love to have your 3wheeler there! :{)

How about a fuel economy competition at one of the Mother Earth Fairs?

Hmmmm.... it is supposed to be a secret.

I am working to be there, but I truly expect to not "win". My vehicle goal will be a bit different - mine will have air conditioning, heater, and power steering. My mileage won't be on par with the serious folks, but would be fun to meet everyone!

regardless of the mileage any of us get, it will be fun to be there and compete...then there is next years race! Gotta get in and do it! :{)

I like your spirit. Sure, there will be some serious streamlined, 16 hp Challengers. But I also like to see the machines we really ride. How do they really perform? The Vetter Challenges are where we learn the truth.

We can't do this without you.

Craig

I might try to make Ohio as it is within reach of a 600 mile ride. I get 87 mpg at 65 mph on my stock CBR250R and will be adding a solo boat tail trunk for my "groceries" (camping gear). I probably can't break 100 mpg on the Vetter run but hope to do so on both days of the Green Grand Prix at Watkins Glen where the speed is specified at 50 mph. Good luck on your new fairings. I hope they become available for sale when you get them finalized. It would be fun to see a few hundred show up for the challenges.

Mid Ohio, it turns out, is a great Challenge location. First... it is the site of the AMA's Vintage Days, July 20-21, which is America's greatest motorcycle swap meet! Second, the ride is more gentle and warmer than California or Nevada. Ohio speed limit is slower. The hills and winds are not so extreme. In the west, my streamlined Helix gets in the 80s-90s mpg. In Ohio, the streamliners, including mine, got over 100 mpg. The Mid Ohio Challenge is a great place to see what fuel economy in real conditions is all about. A bonus is that you can actually meet the legends like Charly Perethian and Fred Hayes.

How many liters of cargo capacity is required to satisfy the "four grocery bags" for the Vetter challenge?

It may frustrate you but I measure the carrying capacity by grocery bags.

When my wife sends me to the store, it is to buy bags of groceries, not volume.
Specific clarification is on:
Vetter Challenge rules

You can do this. In the end, we will all be better off for such carrying utility.

Wow! Those grocery bags are huge. That would be closer to 5,000 cubic inches, 2.9 feet, 80 liters. And a difficult shape. No way for a lightly modified motorcycle with traditional luggage locations to carry those bags. Oh well. Maybe I can ride along if I bring some plastic grocery bags to repack.:)

Of course you can ride with us. You just cannot be considered among the winners and get a trophy. By the way... Carol, my wife, is usually on hand to decide if the groceries are packed acceptably.

Pesky fruit. Maybe if I just straighten out the bananas I could get one more bag in.:) I agree with your vision 100% though. There is no reason not to make bikes with great aeros and the resulting large trunk. I can see this really becoming a grass roots movement if there were a ready made kit for the body work and windscreen. I will certainly build something up as soon as I can buy a ready fairing kit. There are more fuel efficient engines around now with the new Hondas but the pregen Ninjette is so plentiful in the used market it makes sense to focus on that bike's frame. And, there is a new company offering a really trick fuel injection conversion for it. Originally sold for retrofits of the millions of 50-150cc scooters in India and Asia, the company realized it was easily possible for them to double up the hardware to adapt the kit to the small two cylinder Ninja. They have been very responsive to suggestions and have been continually pushing the design forward over the last year to the point where they were able to add enough processing power to incorporate real time closed loop trim via two independent channels with wide band O2 sensors. I don't think there is any other vehicle on the road that can do that. Trimmed to your own maps that you fine tune from your lap top after logging some riding time. You can set 13.4 : 1 at full throttle for maximum power and run 16 : 1 lean burns at light throttle for the best fuel efficiency. For $600.
.
Group Buy: EFI (Fuel Injection) Conversion Kit - ninjette.org

Vetter Streamliner Kit: A kit is what I have been working towards for 3 years. You will get paper with full size templates and special fi glass parts if you want. Everything to make a body that is streamlined, comfortable and able to carry 4 bags of groceries. All on Craig Vetter, designer and inventor of the Windjammer fairing,Triumph Hurricane Motorcycle and fuel economy motorcycles

Want to be the second kit builder? Alan Smith is building the first on his Ninja.

When you get the fiberglass sorted out.

Fair enough. All glass parts are in the works right now.

I will be so happy to have this over with. It has been a long, long project.

Craig

Good news about the nose mold.

Today I got a 104 mpg tankfill on my ninja. Beware the Junkyard Ninja!

:thumbup: HEY CONGRATS TO YOU!!!! GOOD JOB SIR, NOW YOU ARE GOING TO BE A MPG GUY TO RECON WITH AT THE EVENTS!! :D

thanks !:D

Picked up my donorcycle the other day. I scored a really nice 2005 Kawasaki Eliminator for my diesel retrofit! Finishing another project next week and then it is cut/stretch/weld/install and ready to ride! I'll post pics next week when I start! :{)

HHOTDI, This will be an interesting build! Please start a build thread so we can follow you. I'm really interested in the engine/transmission combo you'll be using.

Gee, maybe soon it will be time to look for a Ninja250 for a donor and install a diesel with Craigs kit.

Thanks btr, I am actually trying to have it up and running, not necessarily finished by any means and making it to this years Lacey's Energy Fair. I chose the Honda Rebel for a good donorcycle largely due to its abundant production #'s, ease of availability, good handling characteristics and a really low seat height. Then just to find out someone else had a friend that built a few of them already a few years ago. Now I understand he has moved on to Shadows. Anyway, when I was not able to score a Rebel, I settled for the clone from Kawasaki. I too have thought of using the numerous and abundant Ninja as a project. I just might build one of those next. I will be keeping a log of parts, cuts and measurements and making some youtube vids and of course a lot of posts here. I might put together a set of plans and possibly a kit for the rest of you DIY'rs. The area I live in is all 70 and 75mph freeways. I have one pass to the West of me and three of them to the east of me. So sufficient power/mpg will be a big concern. I might just have to get one of those little Turbo kits and install it as well, we'll see how it runs after I get it going before I start on the full body fairing kit. Should be a blast, looking forward to finishing my last side job next week and getting after it! :{)

Air cooling vs liquid cooling
 

It was Alan's experience that his air cooled Honda CF 230 severely overheated at 70 mph, into the 30 mph headwinds, sitting upright and comfortable. Even spraying water on the head at speed could not keep the engine head temps within safe range. And that was in 65 degree ambient air!

It is too difficult to get the incoming air routed around the front wheel and fender to the engine.

I strongly suggest that you don't waste your efforts on an air cooled motor. A radiator is much easier to feed with cooling air.

Craig

Back in the late 60s, and first married, I was sting in a discussion of auto economics when they were talking Liters per kilometers and putting it in MPG for me. From the get-go they would keep records of consumption, and mileage, right down to the cost of the book and pen. MPG, they were getting 35, but we Americans were getting 20?

UncleDave

???

what Craig said. I had the same problem with my CB250 air cooled motor getting too hot in the hot summer months down here in the south. My bike had NO FAIRINGS and the cylinder head temps got past 375 degrees. I noticed power dropping when it went past 350. I could not find anyone who could tell me how hot was too hot for the little CB250/rebel 250 engines. I seem to remember VW Beetle air cooled motors were toast after 385 degree F. The hotest ambient air I have been in on a bike has been about 104 degree F

Some of the industrial diesel engines used for bike conversion have fans to blow air over the cylinders, since they are designed for stationary industrial, use. Maybe use a NACA duct to feed the fan end of the motor fresh air if you have your heart set on an air cooled motor?

... and still are getting around 20 mpg.

Average EPA-rating on new vehicles is around 21-22 mpg, and apparently, that's even without the unrated trucks !

yup, it stinks that is all that is available here in the states. Huge Praises to folks like EcoModder and Craig Vetter and others that are making it known that not everyone wants 500hp and 8mpg! My family sold all of our gas sucking rigs and bought two turbo diesels. One for errands and one for kid haulin'! Now I am trying to convert my motorcycle to a diesel as well! I saw a 1.0L VW Lupo...wow that would be fun over here in the states! A friend commented on the fact that I walk to work each day. He then asked if it was a long ways. I chuckled and said "well, it is about 120.....uh, ya about 125 feet". LOL! I live 1/2 block from my work, he finally saw the humor in that...dufus anyway! :{)