2015 Nissan Micra coming to Canada (US too?) ... for under $10k ... new Micra Forum
 

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1392910458
See Nissan Micra Forum photo gallery for more images.

2015 Micra news: visit our new Micra Forum for specs, photos, reviews, fuel economy, etc.

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Economy car fans will soon have a compelling new option in Canada: Nissan is bringing the Micra back this spring, with a base price under $10,000.

It may be Nissan's most efficient ICE car, but if so, the ratings won't be significantly different than the Versa sedan or Versa Note because they all share the same 1.6L engine and tranmissions (except CVT). The Micra is a bit lighter than the Versa sedan, but the sedan has better aero.

Official fuel economy figures haven't been released, but I did some homework and have posted some reasonable estimates: 2015 Nissan Micra fuel economy / mileage / mpg (NRCAN, EPA)

The numbers aren't terribly impressive for a small car (the Mirage kicks its butt, especially with the automatic transmission). But you can cry all the way to the bank, because...

The car's trump card is its crazy low price: $9998 for the base car (5-speed, no air conditioning... which I'd say isn't needed in most of Canada anyway).

With that price, Nissan is going to turn the subcompact market upside down: the next cheapest competitors' cars are more than $2000 higher (Chevy Spark, Mitsubishi Mirage start in the low $12k range). Nissan thinks they might sell about 5x better than those cars, too.

For those who don't like to spend money on new vehicles, consider that the average new car is worth around 40% of its original price after 4 years, and start saving your pennies for a ~$4k modding platform.

US version?

There's no technical reason why it can't happen - Canadian federal safety & emission standards mirror those of the US, with a couple of minor differences. If it can be sold in one country, it can be sold in both. But the official word is there are no plans to sell it in the U.S.

However, the company also explicity ruled out Canadian sales too when it started building the car in Mexico. So, let the speculation begin. :D

New Micra Forum

Tim & I have decided to spin off another economy car forum specifically about the new Micra. Check it out at www.Micra-Forum.com for specs, photos, reviews, fuel economy, etc.

That's it for me! No more new forums.

"The numbers aren't terribly impressive for a small car"

You got that right. I beat those numbers without even trying (117km/hr), cold temps and absolutely no tricks used...with a Toyota Camry rental I had last week. Mirage trumps it despite slightly higher initial cost IMO.

Keep in mind, the estimated numbers are 5-cycle (EPA style), not the old 2-cycle NRCAN "optimistic" tests.

In other words: the 5-cycle numbers will be easy for anyone to beat with careful driving, and beat by a wide margin with serious effort.

But I agree: with a 109 hp engine, the car won't be winning eco-driving contests. It's got twice the power of an old Metro (though it carries ~400 lbs more weight).

The draw is price, price, price. I guess that sticking the Versa's drivetrain in this platform is what lets them keep the price down.

It'd be interesting to calculate payback period for the Mirage.

PS: I agree - 4-cyl Camrys are stealth highway MPG monsters! http://ecomodder.com/forum/showthrea...2-a-23818.html

You couldn't pay me $10k to drive a Nissan. And those numbers are terrible for a micro, economy car. Sure the price is low but there are better, nicer, SAFER cars on the market getting the same MPG. I'd rather spend more on quality in this case as every Nissan I have ever had the misfortune of knowing was I piece of junk...

I've only owned one Nissan. It was an old, low-kms, ridiculously soft-riding Sentra station wagon. :D Had no complaints about reliability (though I didn't own it very long).

Ironically, it (well, the sedan version) was the most efficient car on the EPA's list when it was introduced... if you believe wiki.

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1392920277

It was old enough that it had both "Nissan" and "Datsun" badges on it.

Here they start with a 1.2 with 80 hp rated at 5 l/100 km. Unimpressive indeed. Introduction price 9990 euro, which is kinda cheap as well.
For 3000 euro more you get another 1.2 but with 98 hp rated at 4.1 l/100 km.

Those ratings seem horrible for the performance and size.

Is that the supercharged Micra?

As usual, we only get the largest displacement engine option in North America.

I suspect they've run the numbers: if they brought over the smaller engine (which would be used only in this car), it would increase cost and decrease sales to the point of not making it worthwhile to do.

Is that the supercharged Micra?

Yep, 3 cylinder with compressor and direct fuel injection. Like with other cars, it is difficult to reach the promised consumption. During a test from a car magazine they only reached 7.8 l/100 km...:eek:
EU test cycle seems less realistic (other discussion..)

Wow. That is pathetic mileage. Around here something like that would get something like 45mpg with a TDI. Imagine if that had a 1.3 liter TDI in it. It would be able to get an easy 45mpg. But sadly, it doesn't take very good numbers to impress American car buyers...

Why don't they do a diesel version?

The purpose of the Micra in Canada is 'low cost to buy, and fun to drive'. The 1.6L achieves a good power to weight ratio, and is obviously and by far the cheapest car to buy. I think Nissan did a great job of targeting the market, and I think these things will sell like hotcakes (thus making the forum for it).

Yeah, Nissan isn't talking up the fuel economy angle with this car. It's all: "low price, low price, low price, fun!"

It doesn't say much for their line-up that this is probably their most efficient model overall.

But it probably will be kind of fun to drive, and with the manual, still capable of decent numbers in the hands of a motivated eco-driver.

Also, I see ALL KINDS OF POTENTIAL for aero mods. The Micra's stock Cd is only 0.315 (compare that to 0.27 for the Mirage).

Micra... paid for by Smart?
 

http://ecomodder.com/forum/attachmen...1&d=1393001940


Green Car Reports has posted an interesting bit of speculation about why Nissan was able to plop the Micra into the Canadian market with no apparent plans to so in the U.S.

They speculate that the work to "federalize" the car to North American standards was actually done by Smart, which had an agreement with Nissan to "rebadge" (and tart up) the Micra to sell as a larger Smart ForFour model alongside the Smart ForTwo.

Despite Smart having given up on that plan, the work was already done, so it was a relatively easy decision for Nissan to put the car on sale here. It was ready to go in terms of regulations.

This also means there's no reason the Micra couldn't also be sold in the U.S. It comes down to a marketing decision, not a regulatory one.

Full article: http://www.greencarreports.com/news/...d-for-by-smart

I put in some numbers into the cost of these mini vehicles from new to 30k, and new to 100k. Of course, this does not include oil changes, and other services. These costs are SOLELY using the MSRP before any fees or extra costs, and using fuel price of 3.50 per gallon, other than the Cooper which needs premium, and I priced at 3.75.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-j...6.15.21+PM.png

I used information found here: 2-15 Micra vs competitors, power to weight ratio comparison

And replaced information if I found differences on the website. MINI data was also collected from FuelEconomy.gov.

Reviewing this, bar any errors on my part, the Micro is the best bet at 100k miles. I will be reposting this same post on Micra-Forum.com

Should make it apples to apples, based on spec level... more comprehensively, I would have added assumed depreciation (KBB is a good source) to that calculation... though I guess the point still stands... if you want to save... buy cheap!

I went with the cheapest models. All are standard transmission, and standard transmission EPA estimates- except the Micro, which I used the Forum predictions since no official numbers were available. The only real tosses to change would be rebates, and extra costs like delivery, any financing charges, so on. No matter what, the Micro is still the cheapest to buy (meaning less to finance if one does go that way), and even at 100k, it's fuel economy still makes it the cheapest. I did use highway mileage, and not be rude, but unless one lives in LA or NYC, highway mileage shouldn't be an issue with a standard transmission.

My logic behind it was this- oil changes, tire wear, and basic maintenance up to 100k should be level. Also, under the impression if someone wants to buy a new car, and wants the cheapest cost per mile, which is the way to go. My page autopopulates when the data is put in, so any vehicles could be used. I didn't use all of them, just the best power to weight ratio vehicles and tossed in the Chevy and Mitsubishi for good measure. Honestly, I'd probably still have the Mirage.

I think depreciation is a fair value, but one it is very subjective, two it really is a total toss up, especially for new vehicles (Mirage and Micro are brand spankin' new), manual transmissions make it harder, too. I would think if someone wanted an economy car, they would be keeping it for the long haul, but planning for more than 100k seemed a bit ridiculous for the average individual.

PS: it's "Micra" (note the "a"). :)

Seriously? I can't believe I didn't realize that. I am more accustomed to the Micro over seas.

EDIT: Maybe I am just a bit slow, since for the past ~8 years I have been referring to it as the Micro rather than Micra. Whoops! lol

It would be interesting to put together an automatic transmission comparison too (since most people will choose that). I suspect despite the Micra's big purchase price advantage, it will fall behind the Mirage and possibly the Spark in that scenario (which, ironically are equipped with CVT's made by Nissan's JATCO enterprise).

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-w...7.10.50+PM.png

Also posted on the other site. A bit past 200k, the Mirage becomes the better choice, and at 250k, the Mirage keeps bee's knees status while the Spark edges out the Micra.

Shouldn't be an issue! I just have some more work around the house and online before I get it wrapped up.

Manual trans is not an issue with me. I drive the 5 speed on the hi-way 99% of the time, so when I get stuck in traffic, I know it won't last forever.
The good thing about a cheap car, 2-3 years down the road, it will be even cheaper, used.
I can only imagine the engine transplants on the second hand ones.

By MetroMPGs request, the Auto/CVT:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-v...9.04.17+PM.png

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-0...9.04.53+PM.png

MPG is not the estimated average, I took Highway + City and divided by 2. This also does not take into account the added weight of the Auto/CVT.

If the Micra comes to the states do you think it will have AC standard?

Seem not quite apples to apples, and your Mirage price is US, Micra is Canada. Mirage Canada is 12,498. CVT is $1200 option. Which would put it on top, I think maybe with the manual as well.

In the States, I think AC would be standard, like it is in the Mirage.

Although, if I lived in the States, I'd prefer it to be optional. A lot of people in the northern part of the country don't necessarily need it. Right now I'm sitting about 2 miles from upper New York State. I don't think it's that much warmer down there.

I did this based in the US, not in Canada. All prices are US, and USD, other than the Micra, which is Canadian USD. I could re run it, but I was thinking most of the users here are in the US.

Darin, do you want me to rerun with Canadian prices and Canadian fuel economy numbers?

If you want to. Or if you want to send me the file, I'll do up a Canadian version with Metric units and Canadian prices. darin at ecomodder.com. Whatever you like.

I did get your message on MF.com (lol), sent you the request via e-mail. I find formulas fun and interesting, but if you are not as familiar, feel free to ask. I feel like I don't have as much to contribute, and it's nice to be able to add value.

UltArc! We are glad to have you! Meanwhile, I feel like this:
Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy

I redid the entire sheet into Canadian statistics, all pulled from the respective Canadian sites, other than some data from Micra Forum for the Micra. Your profile still says, Iowa, by they way. What else is not "apples to apples?"

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-w...0.10.53+PM.png

240KKM is actually 250KKM. I also don't know conversions real well, so it could be off. Please advise on anything that needs fixed, the US chart is well executed because I am clear on USD, US fuel economy, and how fuel works with the only exception of the Canadian only car being the Canadian price. The Canadian chart can easily have errors, and I will fix when brought to my attention.

My thinking was Nissan wouldn't sell the Mirca in US for the same $9998 with AC that it does in Canada without.

But they almost do(did) exactly that with the Versa sedan($11898 Canada no AC vs. $11990 US with AC so only $92 for AC where I expected $1000.

I also screwed up some math in my head, your post#15, I subtracted $500 from Mirage 100,000mile cost and got basically the same number as the Micra cost, I was off $1000.

Only other point to consider is the Mirage is still under warranty that whole time, but Nissan 5/60,000 miles.

Is Nissan thinking about selling the 2015 Micra in the U.S.?

... wherein I present 5 points that seem to contradict Nissan USA's denials.

Current exchange rate puts the Micra at $8975 US, so Nissan could still add AC and have $9998 US msrp.

Daydream: Fast forward a couple years...

Buy a used Micra
-Cheaper initial cost
Swap in a Mirage 1.2L engine
-smaller, lighter weight?, more fuel economical horse than is available in Micra
While swapping either keep Micra manual transmission
-has to be better ratio than Mirage OR
Final gear swap in Mirage transmission to
-improve ratio
Start aeromodding
-rad blocks because of ease, boat tail to compensate for hatchback shape

Win, win, win, win, win!

Dream ending, waking out of it now, wife to refuse (m)any mods due to aesthetics.

Good morning everyone, hope you had good dreams too.

Benphyr.

Actually the Mirage is over 200 lbs lighter AND more areodynamic from the factory (0.28 vs 0.315) similar frontal areas too.

The Micra's advantage is price, price, price. (Oh and powaaaaaah!)

Metro,

For clarification, :p I guess the target of my daydream was taking advantage of the price, price, price!

To paint it from a different angle, in a few years, both Micra and Mirage will be available used and some (unfortunately) will be in the wreckers for parts :eek:. With those assumptions one could purchase a used Micra, get a 1.2L Mirage engine from a wrecker and put it in the Micra, and do the aeromodding oneself and end up with a vehicle that has the best of both worlds, or at least the best within budget. Lighter than stock Micra (engine weight), has the most fuel economical engine from the Mirage, has better gearing, and get to play with the aeromodding oneself.

It is all a dream - I can't see myself doing any swapping, but I think it a ridiculous waste to plunk bigger than necessary engines into everything. Especially, "econobox"es or sub-compacts. Just think what the name means! At least Micra is comparatively small in physical dimensions, weight, frontal area, fuel cost, price, etc. in the car world.

Thanks for prodding my daydream. :D It needed some exercise to focus my thoughts.

Cheers,

Benphyr.

I was just think how the price of gas affects the payback calculations, so I thought how high does gas have to go to make the Mirage match the Micra at 100,000 miles.

Mirage would use 397 gallons less using HWY MPG in 100,000 but cost $3000 more = $7.55 gallon. The Micra pretty safe as cheapest wheels.

Yeah - fuel prices have a huge impact on payback period.

I ran the numbers with higher Canadan fuel prices, Canadian purchase prices ($2500 difference), the more realistic "combined" mileage (who drives just highway?) and the Micra holds the lead as most economical until the 8th year of ownership when the Mirage takes over -- that's at 160,000km or 100k miles. That's for the manual. The automatic Mirage surpasses the automatic Micra 3 years sooner.

http://micra-forum.com/attachment.ph...8&d=1393721313

Full details/assumptions and link to spreadsheet: Micra running costs comparison vs. competitors

And if you keep the Prius C long enough, it takes the lead from the Mirage... Somewhere around year 18. :D

Also: it's a reasonable bet that Mitsu & GM are going to respond with cash on the hood to close the price gap when the Micra hits dealerships next month. So that'll change the math again.

I did it a little different, but got the same - $7.552439 per gallon would make it break even at 100k miles. $30976.9972 each all said and done.