2022 Green Grand Prix: April 8th at Watkins Glen, NY
 

Please check out Green Grand Prix - Home for more details and information. Bob has announced this year that the full course (including the boot) will be in play.

Ecomodders are free, but this is a great cause, so please contribute if you can. Fantastic event by Bob with the help of Watkins Glen, and Toyota.

I'll be back to the six cylinder class, this year. . . .

Image of full track w/ elevations. The boot will add a pretty substantial drop in elevation for us.
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9f/00/29/9...ons-routes.jpg

Dang, I hadn't heard we're using the boot this year. I'm excited to go back after 2 years away due to travel restrictions.

In. . . . Seven (?) Years, I've never seen the boot used. That elevation change is huge. I was planning to do the event 100% stock, but I may need a kill switch for that huge coast. I'm still waiting for my car to arrive, and to figure out the best method.

Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to go this year.

I wasn't able to make it last time (Oct 2020).

But this should be fun! Bob said I'll be in the V-6 class, with my V-8. There's no chance of me winning, but I just want to see the best it can do, especially with all the new mods on it!

-ryan s.

Would be interesting to do that on the Nürburgring:rolleyes:

As it turns out, I will not be able to attend.
According to Bob, the registration closed last Friday, so I'm out of luck.
Best of luck to those who are running!

-ryan s.

I'm sorry I'll have to miss this year's event. My first miss since 2013. I hope to be back, along with my brother Steve, in 2023.

Yes, the boot should be "interesting"> :)
Any car that efficiently recharges a battery when braking should have an advantage in the boot. Of course they're in a separate class from pure fuel-burners, anyway.

The forecast now, is for partly cloudy weather during the event. That's better than snow or rain!
Weather Underground forcast

In an email discussion with Bob, he wrote something to the effect that the boot would be excluded if the weather isn't good. That really long (and kinda steep) downhill followed by a very tight hairpin would be hazardous if the surface is slippery.

I hope all Ecomodders and others involved have a great time tomorrow. I want to see reports and some photos!

Here's a good article in today's Washington Post (early morning, Friday). It may have a paywall - I can't tell because I have a WP account.

Electrified! Green Grand Prix No. 18 at Watkins Glen

The results are in!

This year, my first year with the 911, I did 36.1 MPG. 100% factory, except the modification from a deer with the front end. Helping out was the warm (for the GGP) weather, and less congestion with the addition of the boots length. Hurting me was the pace lap and the waiting at the start line being part of the mileage, and being stuck behind slow cars through the boot (no passing).

VMan won two awards, knocking it out of the park with over 69 MPG!!

I am disappointed Ecomodders were excluded from autocross this year.

Bruce, if you come back next year I'll give your Insight a run for its money! Fantastic event this year, perfect weather, the Boot and the announcement of target speed just before we started shook things up, and seeing the new BZ4X up close finally was a treat. The one disappointment (for me): where are all the other modded cars? Aside from the EV conversions, every car there besides mine was stock.

VMan, what was the target speed announcement? I want to know! I was there the first year the GGP was run at WGI, and so far as I know it always was 45 mph at WGI. Maybe reduced this year due to the challenging Boot section?

Bob announced at the driver's meeting that we were shooting for 43 mph. I was watching my average speed readout, but that of course included the idle time and pace lap so it ended up reading ~41 mph.

I've been using RallyTracks on my iPhone. I found a few apps for rally data so I'm sure there are more options including for Android. These apps run off GPS data, they don't need a connection to your car for speed data.

It's mostly useful for more conventional Rally events, which the GGP used to run in the afternoons. Now mostly replaced by Autocross.

If I recall correctly - -
It tells you your average speed for that rally segment, while you're driving. When you complete the segment you can tap the screen and it logs the segment in, and starts tracking the next one. I think you can see the average speed for the current lap while you're driving it. But it shows nothing for the first 20 seconds or so; there's not enough data yet for a meaningful average speed.

AND - I did some math a few years ago, using the track lap length (google will find that for the WGI track), and the target speed - to derive the ideal time per lap. Bob G, or any Rally organizer, would never tell you that number. But because you can find the length of the WGI track - with our without the Boot - you can find the distance and derive the time. Without the Boot, it's 2.428 miles. I used to have the length as 2.45 mi but see my link in next post, I think 2.428 is more correct.

Then my brother = navigator uses a digital stopwatch (not toooo expensive) to get our lap time for each lap. Press a button as you pass the start/finish, and it reads out the time. And starts counting time for the new lap just started.

All this works if you're pretty good with math. You have to use miles/hour and find lap times in minutes and seconds. But it's doable.

How was it driving the Boot? Can you guys say what speeds were good for entering that "new" downhill? And what's a good speed for entering the hairpin at the bottom? Anything else about it? Anything you can tell us about it should help all of us next year - assuming the GGP decides that using the Boot was a good thing.

Of course all cars are different but sharing any information here is a lot better than none. The Porsche can probably handle the hairpin better than any other production car in that event!

WGI course length
 

I managed to find a good detailed summary of course length data for the WGI track. Anyone doing calculations for ideal lap times at any given speed, needs this information.

Here:
https://www.racingcircuits.info/nort...kins-glen.html

What's in the review:

The Inner Loop is on the back stretch, just prior to the big downhill horseshoe bend. It's a chicane, a narrowed portion of the track that requires a quick swerve to the right and then back left again, rejoining the straightaway.

Up till this year, the GGP used the "Short Circuit", without inner loop: 2.428 miles. This year the GGP used the "Grand Prix Circuit", without the Inner Loop (so far as I know), 3.377 miles.

Grand Prix Circuit with Inner Loop - 1992 to date
3.450 miles / 5.552 km

Grand Prix Circuit - 1992 to date
(without the inner loop)
3.377 miles / 5.435 km

Short Circuit with Inner Loop - 1992 to date
2.450 miles / 3.943 km

Short Circuit 1992 to date
(without inner loop)
2.428 miles / 3.907 km

I'll have to try that RallyTracks; thanks!

I didn't have the course length with Boot offhand, so I wasn't able to calculate anything. 2019--the last time I was there--I did calculate lap time based on the short course distance and 45 mph, and used the stopwatch on my phone to keep track. If we use the Boot again next year I'll figure that out beforehand.

Coming into the Boot, I found it best to get as close to 55 mph as I could (most laps I was hindered by cars in front of me). Then coast/slight regen* through the first turn and carry as much speed as possible into the uphill hairpin. Entering the hairpin at 52-53 mph, my traction control was cutting in, which lost too much speed through the corner for my liking. But I can't disable that, so I'll just have to deal with it next year again (or get better tires; I'm due for replacements later this year anyway).

*I got a better feel for this as the competition went on. The first few laps, my battery charge was increasing 1-2% each lap--which of course meant mpg left on the table.

Speaking of next year, I'm seriously considering bringing my 1991 Toyota pickup that I've started aeromodding/testing. Maybe I'll email Bob and see if the Toyota reps will bring a Tundra hybrid to go up against.

Here are two maps showing the boot and its three turns.
The uphill turn must be the middle of the three, the "toe".

https://cvrpca.com/wp-content/upload...-Track-Map.jpg

https://www.racingcircuits.info/asse...icane-1992.png

After about a two-year lapse in my being on this site it's very nice to be back in to see that events like this are still going on! I even already have racing numbers on the side of my 2000 insight but alas, I'm in western Washington State. Would love to go to that but it's a bit of a reach. I did drive an 87 CR X I used to have to Watkins Glen back in 2015 to watch Jeff Gordon race in his last normal season. That was the first and only NASCAR race I have ever gone to. It had to be a road course for me so far. I actually had some business to attend to in Wisconsin, and when done with that looked at the calendar and where I was and decided to go for it. At the end of the next work week I was at Laguna Seca for the historic racing. A lot of driving! Great memories! And greater memories of those former fuel prices!

I've been out of the loop for too long. The last fuel economy event I was aware of was the Tour de Sol. I personally sponsored "Diamond" Larry Trowbridge in his Saturn (16 years ago?). I just looked it up and Watkin's Glen is 3.5 hours away. I will be watching for this for next year (2023). Gosh do I feel like a newbie!!

I would love to go to an event like this and meet other Ecomodders and/or car enthusiasts.

I'm a little confused though. Are drivers trying to get the best time, gas mileage, or some combination thereof? Or is everyone just having fun doing their own thing? :)