2nd gen Toyota Prius pedal sticks even after servicing, guy survives
 

YIKES!

msnbc.com Video Player

haha Toyota needs to tell the truth.

It's a second-gen Prius...and it was not serviced, because it is not part of the acceleration recall.

http://green.autoblog.com/2010/03/09...n-incident-in/

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...ryId=124501318

Neil -

That's what I heard. The owner was told by the dealer that his Prius was not part of the recall. This has been all over the Southern California radio stations the past few days.

CarloSW2

it gets some press and now everybodys car is going wide open, excuse to speed? problem being blown out of perportion to hurt toyota and maybe help GM? i know the problem is real but just sounds fishey.(or maybe im a conspiricy nut) gotta go black choppers buzzing my compound.

I think this is either an attempt to extort some money from Toyota, or he was speeding and had to come up with an excuse. The Prius is one of the few cars on the road with a full brake throttle override -- push the brakes and the throttle will automatically cut.

Here are some YouTube videos showing three ways to stop a runaway Prius:


Shift to neutral to override the throttle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_03...eature=related

Hold power button down for 3 seconds, to shut off the car (or shift into neutral and then click it):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N22L...eature=related

Use the brakes, and the throttle is overridden:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiSQe...eature=related

A 2008 Prius like he has will immediately reduce the throttle to zero if you do any of these actions. So this requires a cascade of multiple failures, or a scam, or speeding excuse.

And since he took it into the dealer and found out the recall didn't apply to his car, I think it is a scam to try to force Toyota to settle out of court.

Since I'm not a Prius owner (but do have another one of those other cars models that cuts off fuel as soon as the brakes are touched too), but I'm wondering if the good ol' trick of mashing on the throttle pedal the second time about would fix the problem?

Not that tapping the brakes / switching to neutral isn't already a smart idea...

The only unintended acceleration event I ever had was with my mom's old Impala - the carburator linkage went over while working the throttle and stayed full-wide-open. (No, the throttle pedal mashing trick didn't work in that case)

You didn't whip out your cell phone and cry into it either, right? :thumbup:

hmmmm, seems like this guy is just trying to start some trouble then , huh?

It's always difficult to make a snap judgment without further information, but I'm inclined to be skeptical about this one. It's just too much of a coincidence.

There was some interesting research that shows that when a celebrity commits suicide that fatal single car accidents increase by 2-3% in the days afterwards. IIRC, Malcom Gladwell talks about it in his book "The Tipping Point." The Toyota debacle would seem to be a perfect example of an idea "tipping".

The biggest problem with this is not whether or not it happens, but that people are too stupid to do anything to save themselves. If the throttle were to get stuck open on my Jeep, there is no way the brakes would stop the thing, it's too overpowered. It would be - Click ignition off, shift to neutral, let engine spin down, click ignition back on (ignition off before neutral to avoid bouncing the rev limiter at WOT).

comptiger5000 -

Yeah, but in this post I found my "smoking gun". The claim is that you *can't* shift in neutral (at least, from my understanding, above a certain speed) :

CarloSW2

In a Prius, you can shift it into neutral, and this overrides the throttle:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_03...eature=related

You can also shut it off at speed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3N22L...eature=related

You can also override the throttle with the brakes (I hope the investigators in CA see this!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiSQe...eature=related

Neil -

Yes, you are right. I finally got the scoop on this from the LA Times today :

Runaway Prius driver: 'I was laying on the brakes but it wasn't slowing down' - latimes.com
So, he had all the options that you are presenting, but he was too scared and not trained to use them. The YouTube video is at least a semi-controlled event. The person was trying to prove a point, and also getting some practice at the same time. You can fault the fellow for not "practicing or preparing" to turn off the car, but I think that's a separate issue. In today's driving schools, I don't think most people are being trained for this.

Ha ha, instead of the Corbomite Maneuver, maybe they will start training for the Toyota Maneuver.

CarloSW2

I've seen several people on different forums say they thought the steering would lock up if they "did anything". :rolleyes: :mad:

Frank -

Oh yeah, count me in on that. When I turn off the key to EOC, I always have a small risk of that happening.

For these engine-off buttons, it's "logical" to think that the steering wouldn't lock because the key is not being turned. But how do you know unless you do the test?

CarloSW2

Because the key has to be out AND it has to be in park (a/ts) first?

Frank -

I agree, but again, you're assuming that people are going to know that and do the test. I'm not. They are "doing stuff" based on knowledge of how their previous car worked.

CarloSW2

I am talking about any car, as they have been for many decades.

Frank -

I've been driving a car since 1984, and I am not sure it works that way on all cars. But you are smarter than me on all things automotive, so I am sure you are correct.

CarloSW2

Apparently everybody is jumping on the "not me!" bandwagon:

'I'm innocent', says man jailed for Toyota crash

The 1996 Camry in this article is neither throttle-by-wire or brake-by-wire. It cannot overpower the brakes (and I'm interested to see if there are skidmarks--in a FWD car, the rear brakes should leave skidmarks even in a runaway situation.)

One of the major car magazines took several cars to 100 mph and did "runaway car" braking tests--emergency braking with the accelerator firmly planted. In every case, they were able to "easily" bring the cars to a halt--some only a hundred feet further than a normal panic stop. Even a 500+ hp Roush Mustang was brought to a halt--though it took over 900 feet.

The cop who crashed his Toyota was damning evidence in the media's eyes. After all, they're trained to handle these situations, right? But recently a highway patrol officer in Orange County swerved to miss a stove in lanes and planted his cruiser under the trailer of the big rig in the next lane. Both vehicles then slid into the wall and burst into flame, killing the cop. People are dumb, panicky animals, even if they're "trained" not to be, and there's no telling whether he panicked.

NeilBlanchard -

Looks like you nailed it. He's definitely sounding fishier every day :

Did Toyota Prius Driver Fake Unintended Acceleration?
CarloSW2

Yeah, I'm glad that he was finally outed on this. He claims that he tried to reach down and pull up the pedal, but that it wouldn't release. In that case, if it's really a physically stuck pedal and not electronic, then either putting it in neutral or tapping the brake would have killed the throttle, and holding the power button for a few seconds would kill the engine completely. He refused to comply with the dispatcher and said that he would "flip the car" if he put it in neutral. His 911 call also was published, and he didn't sound like a man in an out-of-control car.

BTW, in an "unintended acceleration per vehicles made" context, other automakers have far more problems than Toyota, even in the past two years (look at the yellow bars):

Fourtitude Forums: Unintended Acceleration: Not Limited to Toyotas

I'd like to see how many complaints were lodged against Toyota before the floormat recall. That would at least give us more realistic "not out to get my share of the pot o' gold" numbers. I'll bet it's far less than many other manufacturers that aren't even being looked at by NTSB right now.

Saw a news article recently re: consumer psych that there were something like 72 reports for all of the year prior to this, and now all of a sudden 272??? LOL

BTW, my wife had an unintended acceleration incident in the Ranger a few months ago. I believe the aftermarket floormat (which has become stiff over the years and no longer conforms to the shape of the floor) slipped under the brake and over the accelerator. The harder she stepped on the brake, the harder it also pressed on the gas. She finally stopped the truck by putting it in park (fortunately she was only moving a few mph, so no permanent damage to the parking pawl.)

When I found out about it, I threw out the floormat. Had it been a Toyota (and had I been less rational about it--I knew the floormat could be an issue), I could see how somebody could call NHTSA instead of just readjusting or replacing the floormat.

It isn't just Toyotas. Just over a year ago, the first Airbus 380-600, the world's biggest and most advanced airliner got her first run-up under the control of the delivery crew. They accidentally released the brakes, didn't throttle back, and went right into the wall. There were so many confusing factors that the obvious solution seemed to be overridden.
I've heard that the Titanic could have been saved by steaming in reverse, using the pressure difference familiar to most everyone here. Captain Smith had gotten there by the luck of never having dealt with an emergency, and the naval architects on board were mezmerized by the buoyancy calculations.

Bicycle Bob -

This is very similar to my list of ifs I did in a junior(?) high book report for "A Night To Remember" :

I still have the report *somewhere*. Now I want to find it.

Also, I heard (on the radio) that the majority of "sudden acceleration" crashes ultimately come down to human error. Heck, last week I chirped the tires and stalled the car in the driveway when I accidentally let up on the clutch pedal. My fault. Thank goodness I didn't rear end my wife's car.

CarloSW2

Jalopnik has some original reporting on this:

Did Bankrupt Runaway Prius Driver Fake "Unintended Acceleration?" - Toyota Recall - Jalopnik

http://jalopnik.com/5492096/is-jim-s...ew-balloon-boy

The guy is a scammer. And I hope he goes to jail.

Neil -

Yeah, I read some more. Jim Sikes will be the best thing that has ever happened to Toyota.

CarloSW2

Hello -

Ok, now I know what's really going on! It turns out that John Gomez is mixed up in all of this :

Toyota was asked in 2007 to consider installing software to prevent sudden acceleration - latimes.com
Now, any Blue Blazer Irregular will know that John Gomez is a Red Lectroid from Planet 10 :

http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimag...Schiavelli.jpg
(John Gomez is on the left)

Where's Buckaroo Banzai when you need him?!?!?!

CarloSW2

Questions Arise in Prius Case - WSJ.com

And his house of cards starts to fall.

A couple of questions

1. Does the pedal on a Prius (or any drive by wire for that matter) move, even when you engage the cruise control?

2. If the throttle is supposed to cut off when you press the brake, how was the guy in California able to burn the brakes to fake the runaway condition?

Almost as if he accelerated, braked, accelerated, braked...

...sounds consistent with Automatic Brake System (ABS), you push the pedal down and the computer "modulates/pulses" the actual braking pressure just short of wheel "lockup."

Remember folks -- the Prius has a throttle override on the brake, so if he applied the brakes, then the throttle was cut off. Ditto for putting it in Neutral (or Park for that matter). And pushing the Power button for 3 or more seconds would have solved his "problem" as well.

Heres the problem though, the police officer noted that the brake lights were on and that he was not decelerating. Which means either the driver found the point at which he could be on both the brakes and throttle. The throttle override had been deactivated, was not working properly, or the car didn't have it installed.

Still though, 30 miles of hard on braking, even if he had lost vaccum assist would have worn the pads to nothing and ground the metal base into the rotors with very extensive damage to the brake system.

Edit: after doing some research, I found out you have to get into the brakes pretty hard to get the engine override to engage. That would make it pretty easy to drag the brakes to make it look like he was trying to stop, while still heating them up so they smell.

TheEnemy -

Curioser and curiouser, I hadn't heard that. Maybe Mr. Sikes turned the parking lights on to emulate brakelights.

[EDIT] - Ok, so you could emulate brakes on by not pressing too hard ...

CarloSW2

Could always rest foot very lightly on the brake pedal throughout these shenanigans too. (lightly- a pun!!! :rolleyes: )

Toyota and NHTSA have preliminarily tested the car that Mr Sikes was driving:

Toyota Casts Doubt On Claim Of Runaway Prius : NPR

If this goes to court, I hope Mr Sikes is asked: "Where were you driving to/from when this happened?" If he can't answer this satisfactorily, it would show it is likely that he was driving with the purpose of faking this incident.