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88 crx Hf - **VTi** swap
Started a new thread since the old one was locked with old title.
I decided to put the D15B (d15z7) 3 stage vtec in my 90 crx hf. The engine/tranny/ecu/harness combo should be here on Friday(tomorrow). I just ordered a 96 civic under dash harness which hopefully I can splice to fit the jdm ecu. I originally wanted to put the setup in my 88 hf, but its my DD and has some front end/steering issues so it will end up in the slightly heavier 90hf for now. I'm hoping to have the setup installed and running for my ~120mi commute to school 3 times a week next semester. I am making an extensive collection of information about the d15b 3 stage vtec because the information is scattered and scarce. Will post when I get a final revision. Hoping to bring my mileage into the 70s with this setup, driving technique and aeromods. Engine/transmission are rated 72mpg at 37mph in original heavier, less aerodynamic vehicles. Wish me luck fellow modders! |
Here is a link to the document I've made with all the d15b 3 stage vtec information.
****Disclaimer**** I do not claim this is original content and have not given credit to sources. This is all information that can be found on the internet in the public domain, including images. It takes quite a bit of digging to pull all this up. Its meant to be a convenience. If anyone would like to revise this document and send me the revision I would be happy to update the posted version. Warning somewhat sloppy, but good info. Info About D15B 3 stage vtec aka d15b.doc - Windows Live |
You actually got the manual trans, proper ECU, and a wiring harness!?!? Congrats!
The only issue I see is the trans for that will be hydraulic while your HF is setup for a cable trans, but that can be modified to work with a hydraulic trans though. |
I think I may use the hf 5 speed. I've read bad stuff about those cable-hydro conversions.
I'm wondering what will be missing that I haven't thought of or read over without realizing. Right now it seems like it'll be in the car tomorrow. Ignorance is bliss. |
Sometimes I have heard of TPS sensors being broken and wire harnesses being cut.
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Picked up engine
Traveled to the terminal to pick up the engine this afternoon. Everything looked to be in order and it fit easily in the back of a Ford Ranger, plenty of room to spare. A bit heavier than I imagined but FedEx loaded it up with their forklift no problem.
I split open the shrinkwrap when I got home and brought in my new p2j-003 ecu and saw that they had included the jdm engine fuse-box with the harness and it all looks good from what I can tell, seems to be complete. Still have to finish unwrapping tomorrow and make better inspection. Now I just need to get my crx in place and start removing the old engine. Has 312,XXX miles so I'm pretty interested in taking it apart and seeing how it has held up. If all goes well I may do the same swap in my other crx, or perhaps I will just rebuild it. Too early to tell. I <3 crxs. I will be sure to document my progress and get some pictures up soon! |
Where did you get the engine and ecu? There are a few engines on ebay but they are not as complete as yours and I dont really know if any of them are trustworthy.
thanks! |
I originally came across it while searching ebay.ph, then later realized it was on regular ebay. The ecu itself is difficult to find and often pretty expensive 300-$500, so when I saw it for $1100 (buy it now) with harness, transmission, and ecu, I asked if he would take the starting price $999 and he accepted, ended auction for me. Shipping was $285. I've read a little bad feedback about him, but it is mostly very good. Sunrise Motors, Canada. He does a ton of business which tells me hes gotta be doing something right. Gotta go, taking out the old hf engine today (or starting). Everything seems to be in order with the setup, but I can't really say yet.
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Today's Progress
Before: http://2klytg.bay.livefilestore.com/...s/100_0168.JPG After: http://2klytg.bay.livefilestore.com/...H/100_0180.JPG Still have to remove clutch cable, speedo cable and a/c compressor. Already broke axle nuts. Plan on taking the engine out through the bottom. |
Does your engine have a 5 wire wide band oxygen sensor? From the pics I've seen of these engines it looks like they have a single wire narrow band sensor. I wonder how the ECU handles lean burn without the wide band sensor?
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Hmm, good question... it appears to be a single wire, I'm not sure though I still haven't unwrapped the motor yet. It may just be that it is multiple wires shrinkwrapped together. I have to look at the connector when I finally get around to opening it up. Should be this weekend. Too much work not enough day-light and supposed to rain Saturday. I plan on showing all my progress here, as well as re-organizing the information to be most helpful for others when I'm done.
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Ok, now I could be wrong... but the 96 HX has a very expensive upper O2 sensor (wideband?) and I think what we are looking at is the lower O2 sensor. I'll know more for sure this weekend.
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I am wondering now why the D15b/d15d7 3 stage vtec engine does not have a wideband if it truly is a lean burn engine? Or maybe the wideband in the US cars only is there only to closely monitor the mix for emissions reasons? I know lean burn cars by nature have higher NOx output. I wonder if the widebands are to keep NOx in check (probably running on the edge of being legal) for US emissions regulations? Sorry to hijack your thread. I really find this stuff interesting and am just trying to find a few answers. |
keep us updated on your progress, i am looking at doing the same thing.
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Removed old engine wiring harness, intake and exhaust manifolds, and old cable-driven VSS. Should be completely removing old engine tomorrow. Bought a "97" Vi-Rs cluster and I'm trying to figure out how to wire it up. Seems to have many more pins than normal 96-2000 civic cluster. Also has the "econo" light and correct rev-limit for the d15b. Also just finished the 1990-02 radio harness so I can use a stock 2 door(amber) 02 civic cd player with P.I.E. HON98AUX mp3 input. Will post more pictures.
http://2klytg.bay.livefilestore.com/...19822534_o.jpg http://2klytg.bay.livefilestore.com/...19822569_o.jpg Should have much more on the 0bd2 wiring and cluster wiring once I get into it. |
How much did that cluster run you? Looks pretty nice. When I did my z1 swap I went with an integra cluster though.
Nice work so far. Got a scangauge to test it out when it's done? :thumbup: |
No scangauge. I'm not sure if I have the obd2 port in the under-dash wiring from the 96 civic, but I'm getting another set of wires, hopefully it will be there.
Cluster was 210 shipped I believe. I'm tracing back all the indicators on it right now. Thought I needed more pins for the connector, still not sure yet. I'm using nude crimp-on butt-splices and shrinkwrap for the connections. Had a tough day of it today, pulled the cv axles. The old lower ball joints were froze up real bad, had to sawzall them off above the lower arm, remove the upperarm and hammer them out. Have new ball joints and tool on the way. Tomorrow hopefully I'll finally get to pull the old motor. |
looks good so far. Are you interested in selling one of the P2J ECU's?
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Don't think I'm ready to sell the other p2j, the manual tranny ecu's are just too hard to come by. I bought my obd2b ver off a guy on honda-tech in europe reasonably priced, especially considering the exchange rate. He had been trying to sell it for a while. I found another guy willing to sell one, but he wanted $400, because it was "so rare". I want to do the same conversion in my other rex if all goes well with this one. I was actually just looking to buy only the ecu, to do the swap in the future. Thats when the engine, ecu, tranny combo came along on ebay and I couldn't pass it up. Hence the two ecus.
I might be willing to sell the P07 ecu as I've had it for a while since SVOboy converted his crx. Still have to get a picture with the HF PM8 in the stack when I pull it out. Would be cool to get the HX P2N and insight PHM ecus in there. Oh well, thats just a crazy dream. |
Just got a few pictures of the engine and wiring. I think there are 34 wires that are cut, the ecu connectors are still pinned up. I think they are ignition, srs, abs, and subharness wires.
http://osaocq.bay.livefilestore.com/...b/100_0113.JPG http://osaocq.bay.livefilestore.com/...I/100_0270.JPG 3 stage vtec d15b / d15z7, notice the two vtec solenoids. http://osaocq.bay.livefilestore.com/...e/100_0271.JPG with wiring on top |
d15 3 stage vtec, d15z7, EK3 Civic Vti 96-98 (obd2a) ecu plugs / wiring / pinout
d15 3 stage vtec, d15z7, EK3 Civic Vti 96-98 (obd2a) ecu plugs / wiring / pinout
http://cx4fwq.bay.livefilestore.com/...A/100_0073.JPG http://cx4fwq.bay.livefilestore.com/...R/100_0078.JPG http://cx4fwq.bay.livefilestore.com/...q/100_0090.JPG http://cx4fwq.bay.livefilestore.com/...q/100_0094.JPG http://cx4fwq.bay.livefilestore.com/...C/100_0095.JPG http://cx4fwq.bay.livefilestore.com/...m/100_0098.JPG Not sure about this last one (brown 7 pin) / What is it? http://cx4fwq.bay.livefilestore.com/...L/100_0258.JPG |
that last brown one looks like the ignition harness to me. Almost exactly the same looking as all the other Honda ignition harnesses I've seen. And by ignition harness, I mean the under dash one that goes to the fuseblock.
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90-91 crx hf pm8 ecu pinout diagram
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Got 4 wires rung out today. Unfortunately I don't know what a bunch of these wires are and I have 30 plus the igntion harness left. I've got horn relay fuse to brake sw, back up fuse, upshift light, and ignition sw pwr. If anyone sees something obvious please tell. I have a whole list to ring out with possibles from different diagrams, but I don't know what the pink wire is for and at least 5 others, no idea. TomO, any idea on the ignition harness pinout? Its wht/blk, yel/blk, yel/grn, yel/grn, blk, blu/wht, grn/yel. I'm marking the wires with white tape short description and numbering. It was cold and started raining or I would have gotten further.
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Figured out 28 of the wires, 6 go to the ignition harness connector, the 7th of the ignition harness connector goes to the ecu. I've got 7 left to trace out and then I found a few more connectors when I opened up the motor some more.
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found new connectors!
http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...q/100_0237.JPG
new connector 8 more pins http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...a/100_0239.JPG http://public.bay.livefilestore.com/...g/100_0243.JPG new connector 1 more pin http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...d/100_0249.JPG http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...i/100_0251.JPG new connector http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...-/100_0256.JPG new found connector, 8 more wires to figure out here http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...0/100_0264.JPG dual solenoid connection (left pink/grn yel) http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...G/100_0267.JPG Single Wire O2 sensor and connector http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...0/100_0286.JPG couple connectors that end nowhere (blanked over) http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...K/100_0288.JPG another connector that ends nowhere (blanked over) http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...0/100_0290.JPG just found this vacuum looking deal also. |
http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...0/100_0286.JPG
the two pin connector is the Jumper for the diagnostic mode, ie jump that connector, turn ignition on and the CEL light blinks out codes if any are present. the three pin one is for Dealer/factory use, it connects to the Honda proprietary scan tool. http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...K/100_0288.JPG This is just a ground block, all the wires going to it are grounded (usually found in the engine bay near the passenger headlight). There should be a small metal tab near the blank end that you mount to the chassis. As far as those ignition wires...did you figure out the pink one? I can check my 92-95 diagrams and they may be the same. http://2kl3tg.bay.livefilestore.com/...0/100_0290.JPG That is the vacuum purge solenoid for the charcoal canister (EVAP system) One end goes to a small brass barb on the back (firewall side) of the intake manifold towards the brake booster side. and the other hose goes to the charcoal canister on the firewall under where your Underhood fuse box is. EDIT: I just looked through my diagrams...the only mention of a pink wire I could find was the power wire color for he SRS system from the under dash fuse panel. But the Harness that runs to the ignition switch is a 7 pin connector and runs from the ignition key cylinder to the top of the fuse box, and I swear it had a pink wire in it along with WHT/BLU, BLK/YEL, and some other wires to give you a reference. |
Today I've figured out all but the YEL RED wire in the large bundle.
I have two more wires ( one BLK, other WHT BLU ) to figure out from the square shock tower 10 pin connector ( connector has the large WHT BLK starter and large BLK YEL altenator wires. ) TomO, Do JDM civics have obdII ports or could I wire one up with my ecu? Also, there is no metal tab on that ground block, perhaps the larger black wire in the bundle went to a ground point? |
also, the PNK wire goes to the blu 8 pin connector. I still have to figure out what the other 7 are for.
Does anyone know what these connectors are called? |
also, in the ground block, only two of the wires are connected together. The other two, one large, one small simply end. I'm not sure this is meant to be grounded here. Perhaps it is a ground test connector or something?
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Update:
Here's what I have for the ignition harness: Ign switch position - Color - Fusebox Fuse location BAT - WHT/BLK (WHT) - to ignition switch (power feed to switch) IG2 - YEL - #13 fuse 7.5A, #16 fuse 7.5A IG1 - BLK/YEL - to ignition coil, #14 fuse 20A, #15 fuse 10A, #25 fuse 10A(pink wire for SRS power supply), #24 fuse 15A (red for SRS) ACC - WHT/BLK - #23 fuse 15A (powers rdio/cigarette lighter and options) ST - BLK/WHT - to starter cut relay (M/T) or neutral safety switch (A/T) I'd send you the three pages this covers in my book, but Adobe Reader 9 has decided to override my nice little script that would just save some pages of my 1265 page Factory service manual. Also remember that these are coming from a factory service manual for a 92-95 Civic, but it should give you a good reference as Honda doesn't usually change up the wiring much for ignition stuff. Hope this helps |
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Just to say Hello and wish you luck .
Good job and Go Saints - "Who Dat?" 12-0 baby. Which part of N.O. are you? Good to see some one from here. I'm in Up town by Tulane. BTW you work fast. |
Hey Discovery, looked your thread over. I always liked the accord lx-i. My first car was a 2 door 94 accord ex with leather, but it got totaled. I had an 88 integra that reminds me a lot of the lx-i with the headlights and overall look, gave it away (pressure from everyone to get rid of it), I love hondas. They make me happy. I've owned 5. mazda/ toyota, not impressed. My truck is a mazda/ford and the hydraulic clutch has been horrible in that I haven't been able to drive it in about a year. My g/f has a newer mazda and its nice enough, but its no honda. I've never owned a vehicle with an automatic. Love Florida, go as much as I can. 12 - 0 is right. Who Dat?
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Okay! Got all but 3 wires figured out. One is yel/red is spliced to become all yellow before dissapearing into the engine harness. The other is a 2 pin connector that is not hooked to anything at the back and under the intake manifold. It has grn and blk wires and looks similar to the connector with same colors that comes from the water pump. Thanks for the help TomO! That round connector is definately a/c stuff.
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yel/red goes to backup sw and the 2 pin connector is the power steering pressure sw! all wires identified. Time to figure out how to get it all hooked up!
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WOOHOO! Now comes the fun part!
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http://qqdung.bay.livefilestore.com/...G/100_0332.JPG
88 - 2002 honda radio harness tidiness. http://qqdung.bay.livefilestore.com/...X/100_0328.JPG http://qqdung.bay.livefilestore.com/...F/100_0329.JPG pinned gauge cluster connectors for Vi-rs cluster. Colors are not correct, just used the largest pinned wires I could find so as not to under size anything just for color accuracy sake. http://qqdung.bay.livefilestore.com/...a/100_0334.JPG My current DD |
So, I started figuring out how each wire needs to hook up... and I was going over the ecu connections. I don't think there is a secondary O2 sensor. No wiring for it connector wise and the ecu connector isn't pinned for it. Also, confused about why the pin for ecu ECT comes into the cabin. I thought that would have been straight from the thermostat to the ecu. Why does it appear there are three temperature sensors? Reference: Part Detail Should have it completely figured out soon :)
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