Go Back   EcoModder Forum > EcoModding > Instrumentation
Register Now
 Register Now
 

Reply  Post New Thread
 
Submit Tools LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 10-25-2013, 06:08 PM   #41 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: CONNECTICUT
Posts: 2

N/A - '92 MERCEDES 300D
Thanks: 0
Thanked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Rack Sensor

Hi
Realize I am coming late to the party but I just found this forum while looking for data on my rack sensor. The ECU output that modifies the fuel flow does so by moving the rack so no need to measure ECU also. Rack position and the calibration curve for the pump will give fuel per injection stroke. Hope it helps. Later
Dick

  Reply With Quote
Alt Today
Popular topics

Other popular topics in this forum...

   
Old 10-25-2013, 08:46 PM   #42 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chile
Posts: 222

Mercedes 89 D - '89 Mercedes 300 E
90 day: 33.86 mpg (US)

Skodie - '09 Skoda Octavia TDI PD
90 day: 38.84 mpg (US)

1993 Mercedes 300D Turbo - '93 Mercedes Benz 300D Turbo W124
90 day: 26.19 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 9.61 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 33.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
First measures of rack position sensor.

Using a audio PC-Scope, I measured several wires at the ECU.

The signals has the shape shown in the graphs bellow.

First: blue wire at 700 rpm (idle) (Rack position)
Second: same at 1500 rpm (approx)
Third: Green/yellow wire at 700 rpm (RPM)
Fourth: Black/yellow wire at 700 rpm (Rack position)
Fifth: same at 1500 rpm.

The table shows the color of wires attached to the ECU.

I am working this subject with the help of AndrzejM who is working the Microcontroller circuit that will process the signals.

OldBeaver
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	BlkYel700.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	78.8 KB
ID:	14000   Click image for larger version

Name:	BlkYel1500.jpg
Views:	29
Size:	77.1 KB
ID:	14001   Click image for larger version

Name:	GrnYellow700.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	84.3 KB
ID:	14002   Click image for larger version

Name:	ECU wires 603.jpg
Views:	49
Size:	119.0 KB
ID:	14003   Click image for larger version

Name:	Blue700.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	77.0 KB
ID:	14004  

Click image for larger version

Name:	Blue1500.jpg
Views:	46
Size:	77.5 KB
ID:	14005  
__________________
Mercedes 300 D turbo 1993

Last edited by oldbeaver; 10-25-2013 at 08:53 PM.. Reason: correction
  Reply With Quote
Old 10-25-2013, 09:38 PM   #43 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chile
Posts: 222

Mercedes 89 D - '89 Mercedes 300 E
90 day: 33.86 mpg (US)

Skodie - '09 Skoda Octavia TDI PD
90 day: 38.84 mpg (US)

1993 Mercedes 300D Turbo - '93 Mercedes Benz 300D Turbo W124
90 day: 26.19 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 9.61 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 33.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Measuring Rack Position Sensor wires OM603

Quote:
Originally Posted by profg View Post
Hi
Realize I am coming late to the party but I just found this forum while looking for data on my rack sensor. The ECU output that modifies the fuel flow does so by moving the rack so no need to measure ECU also. Rack position and the calibration curve for the pump will give fuel per injection stroke. Hope it helps. Later
Dick
Hello Dick,

In fact, you can measure wires at the rack position sensor itself.

I am doing it close de the ECU because they are more accesible and they are all together.

What is the model of yr car?
__________________
Mercedes 300 D turbo 1993
  Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2013, 07:26 PM   #44 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chile
Posts: 222

Mercedes 89 D - '89 Mercedes 300 E
90 day: 33.86 mpg (US)

Skodie - '09 Skoda Octavia TDI PD
90 day: 38.84 mpg (US)

1993 Mercedes 300D Turbo - '93 Mercedes Benz 300D Turbo W124
90 day: 26.19 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 9.61 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 33.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Measuring fuel flow in a pre OBDII diesel

Dick,

Can you explain a Little more your idea?

You wrote:

"The ECU output that modifies the fuel flow does so by moving the rack so no need to measure ECU also. Rack position and the calibration curve for the pump will give fuel per injection stroke."

There is a wire between ECU and RPS. You can intercept signal in any point of this wire and it is the same.

I agree that calibration curve of any single injector of the pump are about the same (should be identical). The sum of all them is the curve of the pump. This curve is about quadratic, concave, with máximum around 2500 rpm.
But this is true for a singular load. A havier load will shift the curve upwards.

I have an idea for the math expression to model it. But you need a programable digital sampler to make the calculations to generate one unique variable meaning liters/time. And a variable that informs of throttle position as an indicator of load.

Any ideas?

Oldbeaver
__________________
Mercedes 300 D turbo 1993
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-27-2014, 08:40 PM   #45 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chile
Posts: 222

Mercedes 89 D - '89 Mercedes 300 E
90 day: 33.86 mpg (US)

Skodie - '09 Skoda Octavia TDI PD
90 day: 38.84 mpg (US)

1993 Mercedes 300D Turbo - '93 Mercedes Benz 300D Turbo W124
90 day: 26.19 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 9.61 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 33.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Accurate diesel fuel consumption possible with this systems.

Hello old diesel fellows,

There is guy in India who sells a complete system consisting of two diesel fuel flow meters (one for supply and one for return fuel) and a LCD digital display that shows a several consumption values, including the difference between the two if I am not wrong. Fuel consumption in liters/hour.

Fuel Consumption Meter - Diesel Generator Fuel Consumption Meter, Automobile Fuel Consumption Meter, Vehicle Fuel Consumption Meter and Fuel Consumption Calculator Manufacturer & Exporter from Mehsana, India

To calculate accurate fuel efficiency (mpg or km/liter), the only thing missing is to take the speed signal existing in our cars (or generate it if not), which is in miles/hour or km/hour, and divide by consumption.

The system looks robust. It should allow to get fuel efficiency in km/liter (or miles per gallon) with very little programming. Maybe it can be done using the elabtronics kits:

AutoSpeed - eLabtronics EZ System, Part 1

The result should be shown in the very same display of the indian system.

Someone will take this project? It looks very attractive and possible.

Oldbeaver

Last minute: I got the price: USD 650. Too expensive I think.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Elabtronics kit.jpg
Views:	32
Size:	91.0 KB
ID:	15447   Click image for larger version

Name:	fuel-consumption-meter-250x250.jpg
Views:	28
Size:	7.5 KB
ID:	15448  
__________________
Mercedes 300 D turbo 1993

Last edited by oldbeaver; 07-28-2014 at 10:31 PM.. Reason: Complete information
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 10:07 PM   #46 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chile
Posts: 222

Mercedes 89 D - '89 Mercedes 300 E
90 day: 33.86 mpg (US)

Skodie - '09 Skoda Octavia TDI PD
90 day: 38.84 mpg (US)

1993 Mercedes 300D Turbo - '93 Mercedes Benz 300D Turbo W124
90 day: 26.19 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 9.61 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 33.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
How can we measure LOAD on a diesel engine?

A gasoline engine has a direct relation between MAF (Mass airflow I think) and fuel consumption, as it uses stoichiometric combustion, which mean 14.7 parts of air per one of fuel.

So, having a MAF sensor in the air inlet allows one to estimate directly and with reasonable realism the fuel used in real time.

However, a diesel engine behaves different, and relation between air and fuel may vary a lot, depending on load.

Does someone in the Forum have a good estimation method of load, to use this information in a fuel computer?

True that the ideal system to use is a fuel computer, a speed digital signal, a fuel consumption digital signal. This last signal isn't present in a indirect injection old diesel engine (IDI), and must be generated somehow.

One way is direct: install two fuel flow meters and calculate difference between these. However, if you want reliable, strong and long lasting fuel flow meters, prepare your wallet. And you need to cut the fuel pipes or hoses. This mean leaks.

Other way is indirect, using signals that exist in these cars, or by installing a sensor to generate it.

Any new ideas?

Oldbeaver
__________________
Mercedes 300 D turbo 1993
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 10:13 PM   #47 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chile
Posts: 222

Mercedes 89 D - '89 Mercedes 300 E
90 day: 33.86 mpg (US)

Skodie - '09 Skoda Octavia TDI PD
90 day: 38.84 mpg (US)

1993 Mercedes 300D Turbo - '93 Mercedes Benz 300D Turbo W124
90 day: 26.19 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 9.61 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 33.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Diesel Flow metering cheap

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbeaver View Post
Hello old diesel fellows,

There is guy in India who sells a complete system consisting of two diesel fuel flow meters (one for supply and one for return fuel) and a LCD digital display that shows a several consumption values, including the difference between the two if I am not wrong. Fuel consumption in liters/hour.

Fuel Consumption Meter - Diesel Generator Fuel Consumption Meter, Automobile Fuel Consumption Meter, Vehicle Fuel Consumption Meter and Fuel Consumption Calculator Manufacturer & Exporter from Mehsana, India

To calculate accurate fuel efficiency (mpg or km/liter), the only thing missing is to take the speed signal existing in our cars (or generate it if not), which is in miles/hour or km/hour, and divide by consumption.

The system looks robust. It should allow to get fuel efficiency in km/liter (or miles per gallon) with very little programming. Maybe it can be done using the elabtronics kits:

AutoSpeed - eLabtronics EZ System, Part 1

The result should be shown in the very same display of the indian system.

Someone will take this project? It looks very attractive and possible.

Oldbeaver

Last minute: I got the price: USD 650. Too expensive I think.

I found a much cheaper set for diesel flow metering in a IDI diesel:

Flow Sensor

Look for "gasflowmeter", just arrived, they say.

It has a digital display and one flow meter. We need to buy the second flow meter, and a processor to calculate difference between supply and return fuel, and combine with speed signal. Not easy for my digital electronics knowledge.

I cannot guarantee duration of this flow meters, but if the system works, one can replace them later if they fail.

Oldbeaver
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	GASFLOWMETER.jpg
Views:	22
Size:	31.8 KB
ID:	15470  
__________________
Mercedes 300 D turbo 1993
  Reply With Quote
Old 07-31-2014, 11:10 PM   #48 (permalink)
Do more with less
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: North Eastern Missouri
Posts: 922

OD - '05 Ford Econoline
90 day: 18.64 mpg (US)

Joetta - '86 Volkswagen Jetta Turbo Oil Burner
TEAM VW AUDI Group
90 day: 49.71 mpg (US)

Benzilla - '85 Mercedes Benz 300D
90 day: 28.08 mpg (US)
Thanks: 65
Thanked 170 Times in 107 Posts
Old???

You have almost a new car and call it old, weirdo.....My 86 vw olds out your 07.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NedTheHead View Post
In another thread, rmay635703 said:



I'd like to ask diesel vehicle owners what kind of instrumentation they're using, given this. My old 2007 Jetta currently has an UltraGauge and I'm a big fan. It would be a shame if I couldn't use it on my new 1999 F250.
__________________
"A man is not finished when he is defeated. He is finished when he quits."
Richard M. Nixon


"The reward of suffering is experience."
Harry S. Truman

“There's no way to rule innocent men. The only power any government has is the power to crack down on criminals. Well, when there aren't enough criminals, one makes them. One declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws.”
Ayn Rand
  Reply With Quote
Old 08-01-2014, 12:12 AM   #49 (permalink)
EcoModding Lurker
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Southern Skies Australia
Posts: 49
Thanks: 6
Thanked 7 Times in 6 Posts
Hi oldbeaver
This is an age old problem on this forum ,I have looked at a lot of various flow sensors ,finding one that will measure flow at idle speed is almost impossible unless you want to pay lots of dollars for them, even then they have repeatability issues at idle flows ,as far as linearity of signal output over the low end to the high end of their range.

I have given up on these & have been using two sensors to measure pressure drop .The current sensors I have been working with are $50.00 each (need two for gasoline) ,this has been an on going development for many months due to time constraints.

I have been testing ultrasonics , but this is not as easy as it appears (don't hold your breath on this one).


There is no point of doing development in public as it always leads to disappointment for those waiting for a solution ,(but I thought I would throw it out there that somebody is working on a solution ,albeit very slowly).


The PROTOTYPE VERSION 15 is almost ready for installation in the real world ,this version is for gasoline ,but the idea may work with diesel ,my brother has a Nissan Patrol diesel 4.2 ,which he would like a mpguino for.

The idea here , is a do it yourself "flow sensor" made from common fittings & a bit of simple electronics for connecting to the MPGuino with no code modifications .
Tp
  Reply With Quote
The Following User Says Thank You to TheTestPilot For This Useful Post:
Varn (08-04-2014)
Old 08-04-2014, 10:10 PM   #50 (permalink)
EcoModding Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Chile
Posts: 222

Mercedes 89 D - '89 Mercedes 300 E
90 day: 33.86 mpg (US)

Skodie - '09 Skoda Octavia TDI PD
90 day: 38.84 mpg (US)

1993 Mercedes 300D Turbo - '93 Mercedes Benz 300D Turbo W124
90 day: 26.19 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 9.61 mpg (US)

Crossie - '16 Subaru XV Crosstreak
90 day: 33.34 mpg (US)
Thanks: 15
Thanked 9 Times in 7 Posts
Mesuring fuel flow on a diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheTestPilot View Post
Hi oldbeaver
This is an age old problem on this forum ,I have looked at a lot of various flow sensors ,finding one that will measure flow at idle speed is almost impossible unless you want to pay lots of dollars for them, even then they have repeatability issues at idle flows ,as far as linearity of signal output over the low end to the high end of their range.

I have given up on these & have been using two sensors to measure pressure drop .The current sensors I have been working with are $50.00 each (need two for gasoline) ,this has been an on going development for many months due to time constraints.

I have been testing ultrasonics , but this is not as easy as it appears (don't hold your breath on this one).


There is no point of doing development in public as it always leads to disappointment for those waiting for a solution ,(but I thought I would throw it out there that somebody is working on a solution ,albeit very slowly).


The PROTOTYPE VERSION 15 is almost ready for installation in the real world ,this version is for gasoline ,but the idea may work with diesel ,my brother has a Nissan Patrol diesel 4.2 ,which he would like a mpguino for.

The idea here , is a do it yourself "flow sensor" made from common fittings & a bit of simple electronics for connecting to the MPGuino with no code modifications .
Tp
Dear TheTestPilot,

What you say sounds very good to me, and I am sure many people is looking forward to any advances on your project.

Please, keep us posted on that.

Best,

Oldbeaver

__________________
Mercedes 300 D turbo 1993
  Reply With Quote
Reply  Post New Thread


Thread Tools




Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.5.2
All content copyright EcoModder.com