additives for improved mpg?
 

has anyone ever experimented with this kinda stuff. theres a lot of products and they all CLAIM that they work. the only one i can attest to is seafoam and it DOES work

Additives are SNAKE OIL! Don't waste your time or money on them.

SeaFoam doesn't improve your mileage, it cleans stuff. The result may have been improved mileage, but it wasn't the SeaFoam that did it.

Most additives are only there to cover stuff up. The only things that I'm still slightly intrigued by are Zmax products, basically because of the marketing demonstrations that I've seen where they run a load meter on an electric motor with thermal protection, and with standard lubes, it clicks off, and when they put ZMax lubes on it, it runs up to high load, backs down a bit, and steadies at middle load, never clicks off, they remove the lube and it stays running for longer than the show went on.

Their claim is that ZMax provides a "dry film lubricant" to bearing surfaces. I have yet to test it.

Zmax sounds like another ceramic lubricant. There are several on the market:
- cermax
- autocerm

I'm going to try Restore (I think it is the cheaper) soon (just changed the oil but the mechanic refused to put it in the engine... now I need to remove 1 quart of oil!).
I'll let you know soon.

Water injection can be used to improve MPG, and the additive it uses is just plain water.

What I do once every four months is run 1 liter of water through my engine.

It cleans the tops of the pistons and the combustion chambers of carbon build up.

I just hook a small vacuum hose from a 1 liter water bottle to a vacuum port on the intake and bring the engine rpm up 3000rpm so it won't stall. The engine will steam big time out the exhaust. I also pull all my O2 sensors so they won't be damaged.

Should be a pretty good indication that it's not what it's "cracked up" to be.

Regarding ZMax microlubricant -

These are the tests they claim to have performed, at a cost of $4.5 Million to "Oil-Chem", the parent company.

* SAE J1321 - designed to measure fuel economy changes of in-service vehicles.
* Auger Electron Spectroscopy - designed to measure the penetration of a material into a metal subsurface.
* Modified CRC L-38 - capable of measuring bearing, cylinder, piston and valve guide wear; horsepower; piston deposits; and oil deterioration.
* ASTM D4172 (Four Ball Method - Prevention of Wear) - designed to measure anti-wear properties of a lubricant.
* ASTM D5182 (Four Ball Method - Coefficient of Friction) - designed to measure the coefficient of friction of a lubricant.
* ASTM G99 (Pin on Disc Method) - designed to measure the coefficient of friction of a lubricant.
* ASTM D2174 (Block on Ring Test) - designed to measure the coefficient of friction of a lubricant.
* ASTM D1748 - designed to measure rust preventive properties of metal preservation.
* Modified Sequence VIII - capable of measuring bearing, cylinder, piston and valve guide wear; horsepower; piston deposits; oil deterioration, and fuel efficiency.
* TEOST MHT-4 Thermo-oxidation Engine Oil Simulation Test - designed to measure and emulate deposits that would occur in the piston and ring area of a modern engine.
* FTP 75 - designed to measure the emissions of a vehicle under normal city and suburban driving conditions.
* BAR 90 - designed to measure the in-use emissions level of vehicles for controlling air quality.


They do have an FAA approved lubricant, AVBLEND, which apparently is the same basic formulation, made from a base package of "Lenckite" (Linkite), derived from a famous racer back in the 50's, originally marketed as "Speedway Blend".

I might be crazy, but I run a bottle of Iso-Heet in every tank. Someone suggested it a while back because of some problems I was having over the winter. First tank I put it in I saw a 1-2mpg increase. I figured It was just my driving, so I didn't use it in the next tank, sure enough it dropped back down. I went back and forth 2-3times and finally decided to just keep using it. Don't know what it does for sure, maybe boost the octane rating, or counter-act the 10% ethanol, who knows. All I know is it seems to make a difference and it's only about $1.75 a bottle in the 4-packs. Also guarantees I won't ever have any problems with water buildup in my tank.

ISO-Heet is a little different beast than what we're discussing here.

I-H is just methanol, basically (the yellow bottle). It's to help remove/emulsify water in your fuel... the water that's inherently there. It actually does help some peope's vehicles run better, especially in colder weather, but many people use it as a band-aid for another existing condition, such as leaky vent lines or return lines, which allow moisture into the tank when the vehicle sits for awhile.

I wish they did work but I don't bother with any of them b/c I dont want to waste my money

There's a difference between additives that are meant to correct some underlying condition with a vehicle (like cleaners, etc.) and those that aren't. My comments are about the second group:

The EPA has specified test procedures (Gas Saving and Aftermarket Retrofit Device Evaluation Program) which it recommends companies use if they want to sell fuel saving additives.

The vast, vast majority do not follow the prescribed test regimen. Those that have often show no change or such a small change as to be meaningless.

Here's how to evaluate additives. Look at their marketing:

• On road testing doesn't count. If that's the major marketing angle, walk away.

• Testimonials from "satisfied customers" don't count. Walk away.

• Money-back guarantees don't count. Are you equipped to scientifically evaluate their product? Didn't think so. They're hoping you'll view the guarantee is "proof" of effectiveness. It's not. Walk away.

Look for 3rd party, EPA-approved lab testing. (Guess what: you probably won't find any. That should make you wonder why.)

EDIT: as an aside, many companies that sell fuel pills, potions and other dubious stuff will often say that they're "EPA Registered" in their marketing. Doesn't mean squat as far as the effectiveness of their product is concerned. All it means is they've registered with the EPA as a company marketing a fuel saving product - that basic step is required by US law. Touting their "EPA Registeration" is meant to dupe the uninformed and is shady marketing, in my opinion.

Another edit: visit this site the next time you're tempted by an additive or otherwise dubious looking fuel saving device: http://www.fuelsaving.info

You might be right.

I was reading on the BITOG forum about oil additive.
There is a good approval for MMO and AutoRX when used as cleaning formulation. You have to be careful since MMO might remove too much gunk and clog the oil filter reducing the oil pressure. Probably not a bad idea to use it
close to an oil change.

Not much information about Cermax or Autocerm.

Some users instead seems to be very happy with RSV and Cermat. It is very early to say. Before using these I would do a cleaning phase first.

I wouldn't use (this is just my opinion) anything with teflon or eccess of zinc.

This for oil additive.

For fuel, how about the old acetone/xylene/GT2 formulation? ;)

I'm currently using Auto-RX in the oil and Marvel Mystery Oil (MMO) in the gas. The car is liking the combination. The ARX I've used before, but I'm running another cleaning to counteract any molestation of the engine that might have occurred when I replaced the intake manifold gaskets. The MMO is making the fuel pump quieter, and the car idles a touch smoother.

Fuel additives are kinda' like cold remedies -- the fact there are some many means that none of them work!

Think about it -- if one (or two) worked, then the others would be out of business.

RandomFact314 -

I'm on the same page with you. My car is old. I want to pour some goop into the engine that will make the inside just like new again! Is that too much to ask?

[EDIT: Ha ha, sounds like a colon cleanse]

CarloSW2

Carlos -

Try 2 quarts of Kerosene... then again, you should also check to make sure there is anything in your engine making it "less than new" in it's current state. Kerosene can damage things... LOL.

I've put tranny fluid in engines when they're really coked up, run it for 100 miles on the highway and through town, then change the oil... usually comes out blacker than black holes, thick and sooty. Afterward, I check the new oil for evidence of buildup and gunk every couple hundred miles. If it's clean, we're good.

MMO is basically trans fliud without additives, and it smells sort of minty. It's gotta be good, because it smells good. It will also "burn out" of your oil within about 1000 miles, so you'll want to check your oil often.

I use Acetone on a pretty regular basis. About 3 oz per 10 gallon ratio. I think that it absorbs moisture similar to iso-heet and possibly increases octane. I experimented with it on a vacation in my wife's car and we consistantly got 3 mpg better with Acetone than without. It's cheap too $15 for a gallon breaks down to about 50 cents per tank.

Acetone evaporates almost as quickly as you pour it.* Acetone, like you get in hobby shops and the like, is also "wet". It doesn't have alot of capacity to be hygroscopic beyond what is already being held, in regards to water.

The octane level of pure Acetone (anhydrous) is ~150... adding 3oz to 10 gallons of 91 octane fuel may get you 92 octane. I'm not even going to do the math, it's such a small change.

The "stigma" of Acetone in fuel is that it's supposed to make the fuel "Easier to digest", by breaking the surface tension of the fuel, allowing it to mix and vaporize completely in the air stream. Of course, it's also completely false.

3MPG is a fairly hefty claim for a Jeep with Acetone. I'd like to see some of your test methods.

As always, welcome to EM!

aaahhhh Minty fresh! :D

lubes
 

When an engine is running,it's lubrication is functioning on a hydrodynamic basis.Metals are separated by oil film,which ski on a continuous wedge of lube trapped in between.
During "jerk",chugging,and destructive detonation,loads can reach levels where the lube is completely squeezed out of the void leading to "high-point" or "asperity",where metal-to-metal contact actually occurs.
Unless you abuse a vehicle,this isn't an issue.
And if a vehicle is operated on a regular basis,"drain-back" isn't an issue either.
I have disassembled engines which have sat for years,and all internal parts were still liberally coated with oil.
Reducing viscosity is the only way I have ever heard of which can effect mpg.Switching to a full synthetic like advanced Mobil-1 would do this,as it's viscosity is like a 0W- weight oil at start-up,but certification criteria forbid the oilmaker from stating it in advertising.

Chirst -

Yeah, I've been reading about the tranny-fluid fix in my S-Series in this saturnfans thread :

FIXED OIL BURNING with ATF in engine crankcase - SaturnFans Forums

I'm tempted, but I'm also a scaredy-cat :

SaturnFans Forums - View Single Post - FIXED OIL BURNING with ATF in engine crankcaseOriginally Posted by OldNuc

CarloSW2

If you read BITOG there are lots of success stories about MMO and Auto-RX. All I know is that they both have worked for me as advertised.

Carlos -

I don't recommend the tranny fluid, either. I've done it, but I don't recommend it to other people. MMO works fine, and is even cheap, at ~$15 for a gallon, which should last for the life of your car, honestly.

Trans fluid acts like a solvent, which will remove coke and oil deposits from your engine. If you want to clean the engine, bite the proverbial bullet and run some diesel engine oil in it. There are detergents specifically formulated in that type of oil to remove coke and combustion contaminants, and it won't hurt your engine at all. It's still a lubricant, it's just a "specialized" lube, which has a specific formulation of solvents added to it that is designed to keep ash and coke from building up. Remember, diesel engines burn oil on purpose - gas engines do it as a design flaw.

The 3 mpg improvement was in an 01 Infiniti I30. My methods were not scientific nor accurate by any means but basically started the trip with straight gas...24ish mpg, acetone in next tank...26.5ish, straight gas next tank...24ish, acetone in next tank...27.2ish, and used acetone from then out maintaining in the 26-27 range. I was figuring mileage by the old fashioned miles / gallons to fill up (not topping off the tank). The Jeep saw a 1 mpg improvement, although there were other factors involved in that tank. Have you tried acetone yourself?

I've tried about every mix of gas-replacement chemicals you can think of, honestly. I've used both Acetone and Xylene to increase octane levels of my fuel for racing purposes (so I could add more boost, increase ignition timing, etc.), and I've even attempted to setup a lawnmower to run on only Acetone. The stuff doesn't vaporize well. (Not entirely true, it vaporizes fine, but doesn't like to remain fluid when exposed to air, and had a tendency to vapor lock my Keihin carb.) I probably won't bother playing with it any more, because I haven't seen any good results thus far, and I don't really race too much anymore.

I've also used a mix of Toluene and n-Heptane (IRL trick) to maintain a track legal octane rating (per unit volume) while still having an octane advantage. n-Heptane is a filler, it has a 0 RON, MON, and RN2 octane number.

The problem with fuel additives is that most of what you find in the additive is already in the gas in some capacity. Normal pump gas can be up to 30% aromatics, including chemicals such as Toluene, Xylene, and the like. Acetone is also usually present.

I'm more interested in synthetic gasses, now.

If you saw the improvement, awesome. I still can't imagine that there was an improvement of up to 10%, as you claim, though. It just doesn't really jive well, especially when so many others have tried and had no joy with it.

Acetone will act as a water emulsifier, though, in case you have some and can't get any methanol.

Did you fill up at the same pump every time you filled the tank for the testing, or were you filling up on the way to somewhere, then filling up on the way back and adding the acetone? The mileage gains could be explained by gas from a different station or area of the US, as well. It could also be explained by the bulk of your "less efficient" driving cycles being in an area you're familiar with, or at higher "low" speeds, such as in a country area rather than a city.

Maybe it cleaned up the fuel injectors to atomize the fuel better.

I can't say enough good about Auto-RX or MMO, however. Auto-RX really smoothed out my formerly herky-jerky transmission, and left the oil really black-looking the first time I used it in my Buick. I did notice a power increase according to the finely-calibrated butt dyno. The MMO makes my fuel pump a lot quieter. The engine knocks less on MMO-doped gas, also. It's also starting easier in the mornings. Although that may be the winter gas finally reaching down south.

Near the best additives I used for MPG were the thinnest motor oil I can stand to run in the car (using up my stash of cheap synthetic 5w-30 now, 5w-20 is next since I can stock one oil for my car and my fiancee's), and a thinner, Grp. III synthetic ATF.